Ferguson Open Thread
Good post to DailyKos about the audio recording of the shots proving Wilson is lying.
“The Double Jeopardy Clause of the Fifth Amendment does not attach in a grand jury proceeding, or bar a grand jury from returning an indictment when a prior grand jury has refused to do so” – per Wikipedia.
With the info on the audio, the revelations about witness #10, the unconstitutional jury instruction, and more BS coming out all the time. the governor of Missouri has more than enough justification to appoint a special prosecutor to re-open the case. Most legal experts seem to think the DOJ lacks the ability to do anything, as there is no proof of a civil rights violation (as the law is defined). Thus, while a wrongful death civil suit remains possible for the Brown family, pressure to appoint a special prosecutor at the State level would be the most likely way Wilson could still face criminal charges.
Even if, as we might imagine, the governor would decline to appoint a new prosecutor, a vigorous campaign urging him to do so would put continued focus both on McCulloch’s intentional pass, and on the evidence of Wilson’s lying and probable guilt — which has only now entered the public record with the release of the material presented to the grand jury.
whonoze 
Woohoo! A new thread and a link to some critical analysis! Thanks, Perfesser!
Would’ve been nice if I’d put in a link myself, wouldn’t it? D’oh!
Here’s a link to the released evidence at the New York Times:
NYT 20141125
Finding stuff in Wilson’s version about which you’d like to more thoroughly cross examine him does not automatically make this guy’s pet theory true.
So Wilson fires 6 shots at Brown’s broad back and they all miss and then he manages to hit him at least 5 times with the next 4?
And if Brown turns around towards Wilson, Wilson is not going to be telling him to walk forward, he’s going to be telling him to get on the ground, so if Brown doesn’t do that, he’s not co-operating in being taken into custody and is therefore still a possible threat
If Brown traveled 25 feet back towards Wilson during the 3 second break in the gunfire, he couldn’t have been moving very slowly.
Average walking speed will carry you about 4.6 feet in a second, so after 3 seconds you’ve covered only a little over half of that 25 feet. To do 25 feet in 3 seconds you have to be moving faster than average, not more slowly.
@ unitron,
Sure. And of course, just because Wilson said things happened a certain way doesn’t automatically make that true, either.
I don’t want to distrust automatically all police. After all, they are public servants who put their lives on the line.
However, neither do I want to trust them all automatically without reservation. They’re mere mortals like the rest of us.
Some of them probably become cops for altruistic reasons, but at the other end of the spectrum there might be some jumped up, lying, corrupt assholes with authoritarian fantasies.
Where is Wilson on this spectrum? I dunno.
I’ll have to address the rest of your post at another time because I’m busy with a selfish-swine project at the moment. };-)
@ unitron,
As we’ve discussed before, it doesn’t always work like on TV. It’s fairly difficult to hit a moving target at a distance using a handgun. On the other hand, it’d probably be somewhat easier to hit an advancing target than a retreating one, don’t you think?
I’m a bit bleary-brained from working on my project, so bear with me while I try to recap some basics just for my own edification.
Per Wilson, he was armed with a Sig Sauer .40 caliber that had a maximum capacity of 13. He fired a total of 12 shots, the first 2 of which were fired while he was still in his SUV and one of those wounded Brown’s thumb.
The audio captured the last 10 shots, and per that audio:
Shots 3 through 8 were fired within a span of 2 seconds (!). Shot 9 was fired about 3 seconds later. Shot 10 was about a second after that followed closely by shots 11 and 12.
All told, those last 10 shots were fired within 7 seconds.
No, I would think Wilson would tell him to halt and get down on the ground. A question in my mind is whether Brown at that point was even capable of understanding and complying. He’d been shot–how many times?
I’m not sure that the averages apply here. Both Wilson and Brown were six feet four. That’s a lot of inseam. And they were both probably pretty adrenalized.
Then again, Brown was poorly shod for running. At the outset, he was wearing slip-on sandals, and during the altercation/flight, I believe he lost both of them and was clad only in socks.
I’m still wondering why a minor incident at a convenience store needed to turn into a bullet-filled chase and kill.
Always nice to read you, whonoze. I mentioned your intake in a French-Canadian blog. With the latest tragic events (E. Garner, Mr. Brown and T. Rice), Trayvon Martin’s case was mentioned. We learned from the interview with Shelly that she had fled to her father that night. I highly saluted your extraordinary insight because you had make that assumption (which I challenged at the moment!) with very little marks. Among so many others, it’s a shame that this very important lighting of GZ’s spirit was not mentioned at all in the trial.
Intelligence of your kind are far too rare.
I do not intend to participate in the discussion of the last three cases. It is very depressing and I get too emotionally involved. But still, I’ll read everything you and your commentators will write.
Just trying to get caught up here.
It seems that St. Louis County prosecutor Robert P. McCulloch released 23 more documents related to the homicide of Michael Brown this Saturday, December 13, 2014, one of them being a transcript of an FBI interview with witness Dorian Johnson:
The Guardian documentcloud dot org
In a NYT article about the new releases, another witness is quoted as describing former Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson:
An excerpt from pages 14 and 15 of the Johnson interview transcript (I touched up the text here and there to correct for small mistranslations in the conversion from PDF to plain text):
I just learned about something interesting pertaining to the sinking of the Titanic that only came to light in 2012:
The Telegraph 10 April 2012
The crew of the Titanic expecting a rich man to forgo having his servant with him to tend to his every need?
Balderdash! Poppycock! Stuff and nonsense!
@ unitron,
It could have been that the Jewish Guggenheim felt some empathy for his not-precisely-white valet Guglio.
It also occurred to me that perhaps Guggenheim and Guglio were secret lovers. Guggenheim was separated from his wife and traveling with an alleged mistress.
What originally spurred my interest was watching the old 1958 movie “A Night to Remember” and indeed, Ttitanic staff was shown restraining steerage passengers from coming out on deck until quite late in the ‘game.’
Oops, that surname should read “Giglio.”
Crap, that Telegraph piece spelled his name “Guglio,’ but his mother’s “Giglio.” I give up. On spelling, that is.
Hat tip to Xena at her blackbutterfly7 wordpress blog for the link to the expose on witness #40:
The Smoking Gun 20141215
Mentally ill and had a history of giving false testimony: it seems pretty obvious that the authorities should have weeded her out before she testified to the grand jury.
As to her racism, it seems like a classic case of a person who needs to feel superior. Just sad and awful.
KMOV 20141218
This is Gronda Morin and I have been focusing big time on the Ferguson case. I have been taking the laborious, time consuming, sleep inducing job to read all the eye witness testimonies. I have personally counted at a minimum 11 eye witnesses by which any competent prosecutor or defense attorney would never allow near the witness stand if they wanted to win. For example, one witness claims he saw Michael brown pointing a gun at himself; the smaller young man was the one at the police driver’s side window; one witness was sure that the police officer was using a Taser gun, etc. There are the nut cases like witnesses 40 and 41. Then there is the outlier witness 10 whose police statement and grand jury testimony vary in key points such as where he first saw Michael brown and Dorian Johnson. My favorite witness is #65 who is a young boy traveling with his parents and sister in the family car. The majority of the more credible witnesses ( outsiders, no familiarity with the residents, no axe to grind) agree with witness 65 who heard or saw Officer Wilson’s 1st shot within the police SUV, saw or heard the second shot as Michael Brown was fleeing with Officer Wilson pursuing him from behind; saw Michael Brown stop and turn around with his arms raised at shoulder level for at least part of the time as he faced the officer, and they saw Michael Brown staggering/ walking/ moving/ stepping forward towards Officer Wilson as he was shot several times. One of the more credible witnesses agrees with all of the above except Michael Brown is described as running towards Officer Wilson. Another more credible witness did not hear or see the second shot as Michael Brown is fleeing with Officer Wilson in pursuit.
P.S. I love Lisa Bloom. She echoes my feelings when she expresses her outrage about the Ferguson grand jury handling by Prosecutor McCulloch.
@ Gronda Morin,
Not to mention allowing Wilson to testify.
Yup, I think McColloch didn’t want to ‘win.’
I’ve got quite a few questions about the case that will probably never be answered, like “Why did Wilson choose to work a neighborhood that he himself latterly described as ‘hostile?'” (And as to why that neighborhood might seem “hostile” to a public servant, for starters, see “debtors prison” practices.)
Kudos to you, by the way, for taking the time to look closely at all the testimony. Between increased personal responsibilities and the holidays, I myself haven’t been paying a great deal of attention to this case or indeed world events of late.
‘ “Why did Wilson choose to work a neighborhood that he himself latterly described as ‘hostile?’” ‘
Wilson was a Ferguson cop, and a recent hire at that. That meant he worked whichever section of Ferguson they assigned to him, and likely whichever shift as well.
He did not go to the chief and say “I want a chance to beat up on ni***rs, so assign me to this sector.”
@ unitron,
It would be pretty much SOP for those who lack seniority to have to take whatever they’re given, but do we know for a fact that this is how Wilson came to be working that neighborhood?
Hey, do you have lunch with these guys that you know what they’re like? };-)
One of Wilson’s buds said that he (Wilson) was not at all racist, but I’d take that with a grain of salt because (a) this is a buddy (b) for all we know, this buddy is himself a racist asshole.
For all we know you’re a bigger racist than an entire Klavern combined and your posts here are just a combination of trolling and being an agent provocateur, if you want to play the “for all we know” game.
For all we know I’m a little green guy in suspended animation out at Area 51 doing all this internet stuff telepathically. See, you can “for all we know” all kinds of stuff, no actual evidence necessary.
There is a correction to my above log. My favorite witness is 64 vs. 65. I had a senior moment.
I could go on forever about Officer Wilson. There is a former St. Louis Police Officer, Redditt or Redit Hudson who wrote a Washington Post Op-Ed piece about how racist the police department is. There was an email site which allowed the officers to post comments. The brass had to stop this practice due to all racial comments. Officer Wilson reflects this toxic culture. His police statement on 8/9 and his police deposition on 8/10 vary significantly from his grand jury testimony. In the 8/9 police statement, he tells how he was hit several times with a closed fist by Michael Brown. On the 8/10 deposition, he says he was hit several times but only 2x with a closed fist. He has never been in a fight with a big, strong person involving closed fists. He should have incurred a more serious injury than the bruise on his right cheek. On the 8/9 and 8/10 statements, he claims that after he made the “21” call at 12:02 p.m. before he initially encountered the two young men in the middle of the road. Later, he alleges that he placed the “21” call after he first approached them I am looking forward to Officer Wilson and Witness 10 being properly cross examined in the future..
@ Gronda Morin,
I have those myself. Eh, let’s see…what was I talking about? };-)
It does at least suggest that having the disgraced Jennings PD on his (Wilson’s) resume was not necessarily seen as a negative.
This from a guy who grew up playing hockey. Hmmm…
Somewhere I recently saw the picture of Wilson’s alleged bruise coupled with a photo of him on another occasion showing a similar redness. It seems possible that the blond, blue-eyed Wilson is just one of those people who has a ‘pinky’ complexion (natural ‘blush’ like the stereotypical British child).
I think that Wilson and the Ferguson PD had a lot of time to ‘rethink’ (cough) his statements.
You obviously get the picture. There is so much wrong with the Ferguson PD. However, I am beginning to think that no matter how badly a police officer acts, there are virtually no criminal court consequences. Just once, I would like to see the judicial system work in these type of cases.
@ unitron
Like lookin’ in a mirror, ain’t it? };-)
/awestruck/ Cool. Or a big green guy like Cthulhu.
“For all we know is” is another way of saying “Speculating here.”
By the way, it seems to me that a remark like “He did not go to the chief and say ‘I want a chance to beat up on ni***rs, so assign me to this sector.’” should be worded a bit differently if it isn’t evidence.
I’d say it should be perfectly obvious that in this day and age no halfway sane chief of police is going to go along with such an obvious invitation to numerous ruinous lawsuits.
@ unitron,
I’d say that Wilson probably never went to his new chief of police and said anything so blatantly hateful and racist as “‘I want a chance to beat up on ni***rs, so assign me to this sector,” but that doesn’t mean that he, his chief and others in the Ferguson PD haven’t couched racism and aggression in other language.
There seem to be some serious, long-standing problems in Ferguson and they probably didn’t come out of nowhere.
Well, duty calls. TTFN.
@ Gronda Morin,
Yes, and expecting some accountability does not automatically translate to cop-hate.
Have you seen Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s excellent opinion piece at Time? (link courtesy of Xena at her blackbutterfly7 wordpress blog):
Time 20141221
The Time’s Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s op-ed piece is “right on, “He did an excellent job. I was thrilled today to see how Mayor deBlasio handled this subject. It has been frustrating to me see how folks are conflagrating peaceful protests with those opportunists who take advantage by resorting to violence or brutish behaviors.
Today I had published a blog titled, “Both Our Police Officers and our Minority Community Members Lives Have Value” but I decided to trash it. Now, I have decided to post it tomorrow under the title, “Need To Improve The Police Culture.” Other organizations in this past year of news have been required to confront their internal cultural issues such as GM, the Veterans Administration and the Secret Service due to outside pressures from the public demanding performance improvements. Why do the police departments have the mind set that we who pay their salaries with our tax dollars do not have the right to demand a more effective, professional and service orientated police force? It is my contention that if law enforcement entities embraced constructive cultural changes that both the police professionals and the minority folks would benefit by the reduction in the loss of lives and / or serious injuries. I am using Thomas Aveni as a resource regarding the current police culture.
“Why do the police departments have the mind set that we who pay their salaries with our tax dollars do not have the right to demand a more effective, professional and service orientated police force? ”
Interesting Charles P. Pierce column on the subject
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/Insubordination
Thank you for the tip!
Information is where you find it.
I had difficulty sleeping last night because I kept having a question pop up in my mind which just wouldn’t go away. I am taking off for the holidays and I need to focus on other things. Does anyone know why the NYPD wasn’t notified in a more timely manner about the sick person who shot his ex girlfriend about 5:30 a.m. in MD.so that the senseless killing of 2 Brooklyn police officer in the afternoon could have been prevented?
Please ignore my last comment. I found some info on this subject: Baltimore County Police picked up on the social media postings, and faxed a “wanted” poster about the suspect to NYC police at around 2:45 p.m. on Saturday, exactly as the shooting was occurring. “The tragedy here is that just as the warning was coming in, the murder was occurring,” Bratton said last night. A Baltimore County spokesperson added that officers tracking Brinsley’s posts and the location of the cellphone notified the NYPD’s 70th Precinct of the threats against officers in a phone call at 2:10 p.m. The above is from “NYPD gunman linked to Baltimore-area shooting:”
Police: Gunman shot ex-girlfriend before shooting officers
UPDATED 2:22 PM EST Dec 22, 2014
I am adding the following to my above comments: About an hour and forty minutes before the New York shootings, Baltimore police were on NYPD shooter’s trail – WUSA9.com http://www.wusa9.com/story/…/maryland/…police-on-nypd…/2079587...”About an hour and forty minutes before the New York shootings, Thompson’s family alerted Baltimore County Police about Brinsley’s Instagram posts about killing police officers. The posts showed Brinsley was in New York, police said”. “12:07 p.m. – Brinsley discards his ex-girlfriend’s phone in Brooklyn.” The NYPD needed the MD info before 11:am to be able to trace the cell phone because he arrived by bus in Manhatten at 10:50 a.m.
Happy Holidays to all and a belated shout out to the late great Joe Cocker who died on the 22nd.
Rest in peace, Joe, or however you want to rest, because you are so beautiful to me:
You Tube
Guess they were hoping that We the Little People might not notice:
The Verge 20141225
To me, that “LOVEINT” bit illustrates how easily this kind of power can become abusive. That can’t even be ‘dignified’ with the term “mission creep,” it’s just plain creepy.
The Washington Times did a write on on this subject today, 1/2/15. This strategic dumping was successful as this was never mentioned in the Sunday News shows. The report does confirm that NSA employees did on occasion use this technology to spy on innocent citizens like their girlfriends.
Mediaite dot com
The suspect circumstances surrounding the destruction of the memorial and Zoll’s lack of tact aside (this was the FPD’s idea of a Public Information Officer?), it’s time to find a better location for a memorial to Michael Brown.
Right now, it’s at the site of Brown’s death which happens to be in the middle of a public street. Unless the city of Ferguson plans to turn that stretch of road into a pedestrian-only zone (doubtful), it’s just dangerous to leave it there. Somebody else is going to get hurt.
Perhaps a road-side plaque at the site and a larger memorial elsewhere would be a good compromise.
St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Boldface font my edit for emphasis:
There ya go: how about that little triangle of green between the two driveways at Canfield Green Apartments? And hey, how about a bronze memorial? Unlike stuffed toys, bronze doesn’t burn or get water-logged and anybody attempting to run over a bronze memorial would probably do at least as much damage to their vehicle as they would the memorial.
Timothy Zoll, the PD Public Relations Officer, exemplifies what is dysfunctional within the Ferguson PD. He couldn’t help rendering his insensitive, racist comments, even though he was talking with a reporter from a major newspaper, Washington Post. He wouldn’t have realized the impact his words would have on others until he was confronted by a major reporter. The Ferguson police chief is now in the untenable position of trying to put the genie of rampant racism within his halls back into the bottle.
I came upon a blog from Mr.MilitantNegro and Where is Humanity which printed an email that the Nashville Police Chief, Steve Anderson wrote which is pertinent to this subject:
Complainer:“These actions are putting the department at disharmony from the majority of the citizens.”
Chief: “While I don’t doubt that you sincerely believe that your thoughts represent the majority of citizens, I would ask you to consider the following before you chisel those thoughts in stone.
As imperfect humans, we have a tendency to limit our association with other persons to those persons who are most like us. Unfortunately, there is even more of a human tendency to stay within our comfort zone by further narrowing those associations to those persons who share our thoughts and opinions. By doing this we can avoid giving consideration to thoughts and ideas different than our own. This would make us uncomfortable. By considering only the thoughts and ideas we are in agreement with, we stay in our comfort zone. Our own biases get reinforced and reflected back at us leaving no room for any opinion but our own. By doing this, we often convince ourselves that the majority of the world shares opinion and that anyone with another opinion is, obviously, wrong.
It is only when we go outside that comfort zone, and subject ourselves to the discomfort of considering thoughts we don’t agree with, that we can make an informed judgment on any matter. We can still disagree and maintain our opinions, but we can now do so knowing that the issue has been given consideration from all four sides. Or, if we truly give fair consideration to all points of view, we may need to swallow our pride and amend our original thoughts.
And, it is only by giving consideration to the thoughts of all persons, even those that disagree with us, that we can have an understanding as to what constitutes a majority.”
I will be printing this letter along with a personal note and mailing it to several police chiefs around the country. I put this excerpt in my blog regarding the memorial under Gronda Morin.
@ Gronda Morin,
Amen.
I have come a little late to the Michael Brown story. I have spent hours reading all (mostly FBI) interviews, reading the police reports, the forensic reports which took a lot or hours to come to a similar conclusion that you all did from a scientific perspective which I bet took a lot less hours. I am bummed…and I have been blogging on him like Trayvon Martin. I am thinking that this is a great case for the DOJ to pick up or somehow manage to get this to trial. This case is a perfect case study on how corrupt the judicial and law enforcement is when holding a police officer accountable for the preventable fatal shooting of an unarmed Black man. Thanks for the scientific work..it is great!!
@ Gronda Morin,
I don’t know whether the feds will be able to do anything to hold Wilson accountable for killing Brown, but hopefully the latter’s death will not have been completely in vain.
It’s put a spotlight on problems that are not unique to Ferguson, Missouri, such local government funding practices that create a modern-day version of debtor’s prison and law enforcement training (escalation as opposed to deescalation).
Brown wasn’t perfect, but he shouldn’t have needed to be in order to live.
Yes good can from this. Miracles happen every day and I have a miracle to report. Today, 12/29 The Washington Post by Aaron Blake published a poll in which the tea party folks and the rest of the world agree on some solutions. Here are a couple of excerpts:
“It shows 86 percent of Americans support requiring patrol officers in their areas to wear small video cameras while on duty — a finding in line with other polling on this subject.
What’s a little more surprising, though, is the consensus on another issue related to the Ferguson and Eric Garner cases: independent prosecutors. The poll shows about the same percentage — 87 percent — support having these outsiders handle cases in which unarmed Americans are killed by police.”
@ Gronda Morin,
As much as I personally dislike the proliferation of surveillance, patrol officers wearing video cameras seems like a good idea. Both officers and civilians will probably behave better if they know the interaction is being recorded.
I’m still interested in that footage of a Ferguson resident who allegedly tried to record Wilson and the latter got ‘stroppy’ with him. The resident might well have been the neighbor from hell with all of his derelict vehicles, but that didn’t revoke his right to record.
Yup. This “internal affairs” stuff is all well and good, but external review is necessary.
Where can I find that info about the resident who tried to video the shooting by was given hard time by officer Wilson?
@ Gronda Morin,
I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear. The alleged altercation with a resident trying to record Wilson was not related to the Brown homicide, but rather a completely separate incident. Here’s the news article about it that originally caught my eye:
KSDK 20141118
@ Gronda Morin,
Here is a YouTube copy of the video allegedly showing Wilson threatening the resident (I’m putting it in a separate post to avoid potential problems with WordPress):
YouTube 20141115
Thanks for sharing the You Tube link. Officer Wilson does exhibit a certain attitude. Happy New Year!!!
@ Gronda Morin,
You’re more than welcome and Happy New Year to you as well. 🙂
A quick search today netted me a copy of the pertinent police incident report (it confirms that Wilson was indeed the officer):
Jon Swaine at scribd 20141205
I did add excerpts from the 12/2 /14 Daily Kos blog about your scientific evidence disproving Officer’s Wilson’s contentions about the shooting sequence on 8/9. I have been so elated with this information. Again, thanks for going the extra mile on this!!!
KREM 20141231
Boldface font my edit for emphasis:
So let’s see:
We have a two-year-old who will someday be old enough to understand that he killed his own mother. You know, assuming that he doesn’t get killed by another toddler with access to a firearm.
We have an untold number of people, children included, who are traumatized by having witnessed the shooting death.
We have a widower and single father who, according to other news reports, bought that firearm for his deceased wife.
It appears I misread; it was not the firearm that was a recent gift from the husband, but rather the purse:
MSNBC 20141231
Anybody who’s spent more than two minutes around a two-year-old knows that you only have to take your eyes off of them for two seconds and they’re liable to be doing something undesirable.
And how many two-year-olds have a “dress me” doll that teaches them how to work buttons, laces–and zippers? Not to mention the precocious ones that don’t need a “dress me” doll and figure that stuff out on their own?
If the 5 lbs of pressure is required to have gun work…I am not understanding how a 2 yr old is able to overcome this supposed check to be able to use the gun? Is this possible?
Would you believe that there is a gun which the NRA is doing everything possible to prevent it from being sold to U.S. consumers. It is now being called the smart gun. The gun is designed to be non usable by anyone other than the owner. Some store owners have literally been threatened to stop selling this product or to be shut down. There is now a California outlet selling this product. This product would be great for law enforcement as it would prevent officers’ guns from being used by others and it would be a safety measure in this type of a case. It is called Armatix1 P1. There are other smart gun developers.
This is a perfect example of the NRA representing gun companies vs. gun owners. NRA is claiming that the distribution of smart guns is a way to impede the 2nd amendment because soon there will be laws limiting the consumer to just purchase smart guns.
@ Gronda Morin,
They’re looking at store surveillance video to see if they can find out more about how it happened, but you know that just as all adults aren’t the same, all two-year-olds are not the same. Some of them are pretty strong. And some of them are pretty determined to do whatever comes into their heads.
So the Second Amendment only applies to those the NRA agrees with, huh? They don’t want anybody trying to limit their arsenal, but they’ll try to shut down a merchant selling a firearm they don’t like.
Sounds promising.
The American Academy of Pediatrics urges parents to remove guns from the house. (from Wikipedia)
Children who are generally considered too young to be allowed to handle firearms at all can be taught a different set of rules:
Stop.
Don’t touch.
Leave the area.
Tell an adult.
The purpose of these rules is to prevent children from inadvertently handling firearms. These rules are part of the Eddie Eagle program developed by the National Rifle Association for preschoolers through 6th graders.[32]
Whether programs like Eddie Eagle are effective has not been conclusively determined. Some studies published in peer-reviewed journals have shown that it is very difficult for young children to control their curiosity even when they have been taught not to touch firearms.[33] Gun access is also a major risk factor for youth suicide.[34] The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) advises that keeping a gun in the home, especially a handgun increases the risk of injury and death for children and youth in the home.[35] If families do keep a gun in the home, the AAP advises keeping it unloaded and locked up, with the ammunition locked in a separate location, and the keys to the locked boxes hidden.[35]
Polling shows that over half of parents who do not own a gun have never talked with their children age 5-17 about gun safety.[36] The ASK Campaign (Asking Saves Kids) is based on the fact that many families with children have a gun, and almost half these guns are left unlocked or loaded. The ASK Campaign urges parents to ask their friends, neighbors and family members if they have a gun in the home before sending their children over to play.[37]
Older youth (age may vary per program) may take part in a program for safe rifle handling, such as the ones promoted by these organizations:
4H Shooting Sports Programs
Boy Scouts of America
Civilian Marksmanship Program
National Rifle Association
Project Appleseed
@ Gronda Morin,
I don’t ever remember being taught about it, but I knew better than to touch my father’s firearms. He was way scarier than a gun. };-)
It helps to give instructions if the children are more than 2 years old!
@ Gronda Morin,
Oh, agreed. For the two year old set, it’s enough for them to understand “Don’t touch,” wherever and whenever they see firearms.
For older children I think it becomes a bit like sex education and tailored not merely to their chronological age but the intellectual and emotional maturity of the individual child.
The one paramount lesson to me is that a firearm is indeed a tool but one designed to be lethal. This is what sets it apart from the automobile and other tools that have been used by extremists as analogies.
Oh, and Happy New Year. May we all learn to get along and thereby prosper.
Dear Word Salad, When you all were studying the sound video for gun shot pattern, did you ever determine when the last shot was fired?
@ Gronda Morin,
I can’t say that I personally did much study on it, but here’s a table from a Washington Post article about it:
WaPo 20141208
@ Gronda Morin,
In case I misunderstood your question, I don’t know exactly what ‘clock’ time that last shot was fired, but for what it’s worth, Glide said this:
Glide 20140828
Thank you!!! Thank you!!! Thank you!!!
Dear Word Salad, I have been using the St Louis Post Dispatch for timeline info as my best resource. It also matches the actual police dispatch info. As per, 11/14/14 St. Louis Post Dispatch article by Robert Patrick, the official police dispatch records show that the “21” request for assist call by Officer Darren Wilson was clocked at 12:02:22 p.m. Your Glide technology data places timing of video at 12:02:14. This may very well mean that the shooting occurred 1st before the “21” call for assist. If you read my most recent blog, you will get an idea of how crazy I have been over the timeline issue because it wasn’t adding up to make sense. I am so Happy!!!!! I am doing the happy dance!!! Thank you!!!
@ Gronda Morin,
You’re very welcome, but you might want to contact Glide for clarification, because when this information first came out, Perfesser whonoze said the following (I’m quoting him from the previous Michael Brown thread):
Bah Humbug!!! This is still helpful information. I’ll just have to add a note to my blog. Thanks for letting me know.
@ Gronda Morin,
I’m sorry I didn’t remember earlier. I found that Glide link today and only later remembered that we’d already discussed the information back in late August.
I’m a bit distracted these days.
Join the club as far as distractions go. I have had numerous questions as to what did the clerk in the Ferguson market say to Michael Brown. According to the police reports, when they viewed the video which did not have an audio component, they commented that it looked like Michael Brown and the clerk were having a heated exchange of words. The police did drop off forms so that the employees could write down what happened. I have not been able to locate any documentation on this subject. In all of your earlier work, did you come across anything?
@ Gronda Morin,
As to written reports by witnesses at Ferguson Market & Liquor, no. There is this commentary on the video:
AATP dot com 20140818
I am fuming over the Washington Post Volokh Conspiracy bog posted 12/8/14 by Paul G. Cassell. He concludes that the audio tape of the gun sequencing verifies Officer Wilson’s version. He writes:The grand jury clearly recognized the significance of the audio evidence. In the last volume of grand jury, one of the grand jurors questioned the crime scene detective about the time that passed between the shots, saying “[w]e tried to approximate it, it was six or seven seconds, but do you know exactly?” (vol. 24, 88:25). The detective did not know, but the prosecutor referred to an FBI analysis (from Quantico) that confirmed that the sounds were apparent gunshots. A grand jury asked whether the FBI had constructed an exact a time line, and the prosecutor said it had not. That FBI report has apparently not been made public; I haven’t been able to locate it in the on-line sources I have examined.
Everyone should not be allowed to “write their own story” about the Michael Brown shooting. An audiotape of the shooting exists, as well as substantial related physical evidence. And yet I have seen very little discussion of this evidence, particularly from Michael Brown supporters. Many seem to be more interested in discussing “the lessons of Ferguson” or some other broad topic. Indeed, some of Brown’s supporters candidly concede that the facts are irrelevant. But for those who want to know whether the grand jury reached the right conclusion, the facts are paramount. The grand jury had an audiotape and ample other evidence to support the conclusion that Michael Brown directly charged Wilson — and thus that no charges were appropriate.
What am I missing here?
@ Gronda Morin,
Crap, it looks like I’m going to have a bad HTML day.
The audio has been released to the public on 12/8/14..without the FBI analysis, You can find the audio in the above report. Does it comport with the sound track as per Glide?
@ Gronda Morin,
I’m not sure I understand your question.
As to the FBI analysis, I suspect we won’t see that until the feds are done with their investigation and we see how long that can take vis-à-vis the Martin homicide.
I am backing whonoze analysis of gunfire sequencing as per Dailykos blog dated 12/1 by jeff Motron or jeff Mortan. I would like to know how you all see the Paul G. Cassell interpretation?
Of course, it would be helpful to determine how often Black men are fatally harmed by police by the collection of data. When I began to do research on this subject, I was surprised to learn that most cities and states do not collect and document this data. There is a Utah newspaper which has been compiling this type of data for their state for several years. As per a New Republic article, titled, “More People in Utah Are Killed by Police Than Die in Gang or Drug Violence” by Ben Mathis-Lilley on 11/24/2014. He reports the following: “A Salt Lake Tribune review of nearly 300 homicides, using media reports, state crime statistics, medical-examiner records and court records, shows that use of force by police is the second-most common circumstance under which Utahans kill each other, surpassed only by intimate partner violence. Between 2010 and October of this year, the Tribune found, 45 people were killed by law enforcement officers in Utah. Officer-involved killings ranked as the second-deadliest category of homicide, trailing deaths perpetrated by spouses or partners but ahead of gang killings, drug killings, and deaths resulting from child abuse. Only one of the police-involved killings—the shooting of 21-year-old Danielle Willard during an undercover drug operation in 2012—led to a prosecution, but a judge threw out charges against the officer involved in October.” Fortunately, I recently watched Eric Holder being interviewed by Joy-Ann Reid when he voiced similar sentiments.
@ Gronda Morin,
That’s the guy who wrote the WaPo piece associated with the graph I posted, isn’t it? Yeah, I don’t necessarily agree with his viewpoint, which is why I just posted the graph.
What I’m still having a lot of trouble with: why did Wilson escalate an alleged theft of a few cigarillos into a confrontation that resulted in a bullet-filled chase and death?
Brown and Johnson weren’t armed, they were walking very conspicuously–not running furtively–down the street and even indicated their eventual destination.
The devil is in the details. Why did 1st responding officer claim to hear four gun shots but the other who arrived almost at the same time did not? Was there an attempt by one of the responding Ferguson officers to establish a time line? To further the confusion, on page 12 of the lead detective’s report #14-43984, Officer Wilson states that he heard the dispatcher announce the news of the theft but how is this possible if he had been assigned to assist a sick child case at about 11:44 a.m. The Ferguson PD report #14-12390 page 9 indicates he arrived at 11:48 a.m. Did he have enough time to visit the home of the sick child, render assistance and then leave in time to have listened to the dispatcher’s news around 11:54 a.m. which is a time total of 6 minutes? In addition, as per Map Quest it would take about 10 minutes at a minimum to travel from the St. Cyr / Glenark Dr. area to the Canfield Green Apt. complex.
This is timeline as per police records:
Ferguson Police Department Event Report #14-12390 7140 Sick Case.
Location: Tower at 2491 St Cyr, 2 month old child that can’t breathe when she coughs.
11:45 Event opened by sending work area
11:48 ARRIVED ON SCENE
11:48 Set reminder for 300 seconds
11:48 ENROUTE TO SCENE
12:00 CLEAR UNIT
12:00 Complaint number “14-12390’ Assigned
12:00 Records Management Report Opened
12:00:07 Notes added (the address)
12 10:04 Reopen Incident
2014-029062
Copper creek Ct, Ferguson, Mo, Canfield Dr.
12:01:50 Open
12:02:22 Dispatch
12:02:22 Arrive on Scene
12:02:22 Arrival
Incident notes:
8/9
12:04 EMS Contacted
Note the 12:02:22 dispatch time. If the Glide data is accurate at 12:02;14 and even allowing for 7 seconds, the dispatch call could be post shooting.
As per, 11/14/14 St. Louis Post Dispatch article by Robert Patrick, the official police dispatch records show that the “21” request for assist call by Officer Darren Wilson was clocked at 12:02:22 p.m. According to the same Post dispatch write up, a bystander tweeted that he just witnessed someone being fatally shot at 12:03 p.m. Could there be other video or cell phone data indicating an earlier time line? However, the ST. Louis County PD report #14-43984, page 1 puts the time of death at 12:02 p.m. The Glide technology as described above establishes the time of death at 12:02:14 CDT. Is it possible that Officer Wilson was calling for assistance after the shooting ended? In short, it is my contention that it is too frustrating to figure out this timeline because the data just doesn’t add up to make sense. Consequently, I don’t believe the story that Officer Wilson was appraised about the theft before he shot Michael Brown. In the 11/14/14 Post Dispatch article, Michael Brown’s family attorney also is dubious about this prior notice and has submitted the following comment:
“Lawyers for the Brown family issued a statement Saturday (11/8/14) saying that from the beginning the Ferguson Police Department has sought to “vilify the victim and put the shooter on a pedestal.”
The statement also said, “the audio clearly demonstrates that the initial interaction with the officer and Brown had nothing to do with the incident at the convenience store.”
@ Gronda Morin,
Indeed.
It could be that they’re being less than forthcoming, but the ‘fact’ that one heard four gun shots and another didn’t could be nothing more than the infamous unreliability of witness memory, even that of cops.
Good questions.
Was there more than one patrol officer who went to the sick child call, thereby freeing Wilson?
Did the sick child call turn out to be nothing serious and indeed even being considered an ‘annoyance?’
Google Maps also says 10 minutes (from the middle of Glenark Drive to 2947 Canfield Drive. It’s only about a half mile, but then again it’s suburban residential streets and speed limits may have some impact. So, how fast was Wilson driving? };-)
With regard to the time stamps: something learned (by the lay community) during the Martin homicide case was that many of the stamps seen in police incident reports merely reflect when the dispatcher finished typing an entry and hit return. The connect times on calls are fairly accurate, providing that a given call didn’t get put in a ‘queue’ because all the dispatchers were busy.
Possibly The Powers That Be don’t want the data to add up and make sense. They might have to take some action they don’t want to take.
In the Martin/Zimmerman case, the Sanford police released a timeline which really neither helped not hurt Zimmerman, so there was no motive for them to falsify it, but it was also not accurate, when compared to the county’s call center logs, because it was based more on when the dispacther sent out a radio message of some sort to officers than when he answered the phone and started talking.
So until time-coded audio from the Ferguson radio system is made available, I wouldn’t put much reliance on the timelines provided so far, but I wouldn’t interpret them as a conspiracy either, just a lack of precision of thinking and attention to detail.
Sometimes it’s not malice, it’s just incompetence.
Xena at her blackbutterfly7 wordpress blog in response to the “Police Lives Matter” meme:
blackbutterfly7
Amen.
Prejudice is still very much a fact of life, although sometimes it’s subtle and therefore difficult to combat.
All lives matter.
Scratch this question of mine, because an ambulance was called and the child was being transported. Still, the child probably wasn’t deathly ill, because the ambulance personnel felt able to stop at the homicide scene and render assistance.
@ unitron,
Eh, how quickly they forget, and when I say “they,” I mean me. I seem to recall that initially, a lot of bad times were given out, but even at the trial there was still some quibbling about the timeline.
Bah, never say never, but let me say it’s pretty freaking unlikely I’ll ever be convinced that lying narcissist GZ had a legitimate self-defense excuse.
Sometimes it is just incompetence, but given the suspect reports of Wilson’s injuries (and I’m not just talking about that Internet ‘pundit’ guy falsifying X-rays–he appears to be both incompetent <i<and malicious), I’m not inclined to trust them.
Well, I must away. Duty calls.
I’m believing the police colluded to cover for their fellow officer. The Ferguson Chief Jackson gave a press report on 8/15/14 where he publicly stated that the convenient store theft had nothing to do with Officer Wilson’s 1st contact with Michael Brown and Dorian Johnson. This story does not match Officer Wilson’s 1st statement to St. Louis County lead detective on 8/9/14. On Page 12 of the Police report #14-43984, Officer Wilson alleges the following in the statement he gave to the lead detective on 8/9/2014:
“Prior to the incident taking place, he had just completed an unrelated radio assignment of a sick case. After completing the radio assignment, he drove west on Canfield Dr. While driving, he heard on his department radio, a broadcast of stealing reported to have occurred at 9101 W. Florissant Ave. During the broadcast, a suspect description was provided. The suspect was described as a Black male wearing a black t-shirt and brown shorts. The broadcast also identified that cigarillos were taken during the stealing. Officer Wilson stated, he observed two unknown subjects walking towards his location from the area of Canfield Drive and West Florissant Avenue. As the dispatcher provided the description of the individuals, he stopped his patrol vehicle and allowed the subjects to approach with his window down. He stated, “Hey guys, why don’t you walk on the sidewalk.” Officer Wilson indicated that Johnson stated, “We are almost to our destination.” The statement was quickly followed by Brown stating, “The fuck with what you say.” Both the subjects continued to walk past the patrol vehicle.”
“Police Officer Darren Wilson notified his dispatcher that he would be conducting a pedestrian check on Canfield Dr. and requested an assist officer. he then placed his patrol vehicle in reverse and backed up toward the subjects, and stated, “Hey, come here.”
@ Gronda Morin,
I think there are enough inconsistencies to suggest that they might have tried to cover for Wilson losing his cool and using poor judgment.
Granted, walking down the middle of the street, even if it is the weekend in a quiet suburb is stupid, not to mention illegal.
I don’t know if Wilson was already in a poor mood from the sick child call, but I suspect that being told they were “almost there” in response to an instruction to get out of the street (however it was worded) pissed him off.
If somebody can’t control their temper, they have no business packing heat, let alone doing so as a “peace officer.”
The following is based on 8/15 CNN Report by Don Lemon: The Ferguson police officer who shot Michael Brown didn’t stop him because he was suspected in a convenience-store robbery, but because he was “walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic,” the city’s police chief said 8/15.”
“Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson — hours after documents came out labeling the 18-year-old Brown as the “primary suspect” in the store theft — told reporters the “robbery does not relate to the initial contact between the officer and Michael Brown.”
Now compare the Chief’s comments on 8/15 vs. Officer Wilson’s statement to the lead detective on 8/9/14.
Woo hoo! Hat tip to Xena at her blackbutterfly7 wordpress blog for the link to this story:
Talking Points Memo 20150105
You go, baby!
It is about time. This is one piece of data that the prosecutor has not released to the public. I am suspecting that 9 White jurors voted not to indict but three Black jurors probably disagreed. The prosecutor only needed 9 jurors to agree to get what he wanted. He needed to be sure he would not be accused of not having a racially diverse jury.This is also why he did not allow for any alternate jurors which is standard for grand juries. I am hoping that the appellate judges decide that when Prosecutor McCulloch made public all the evidence and all the eye and expert witness testimony transcripts that he gave up the right to maintain secrecy as to the break down of how the jurors voted as this would not breach some of the jurors desire for privacy.
http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/54000000211.html
” …4. Those persons summoned for grand jury service shall be placed under the control and supervision of the presiding judge of the circuit court, or a judge designated by the presiding judge, who shall select twelve persons to serve as grand jurors. Alternate grand jurors as determined by the judge shall also be selected, to serve as a grand juror upon the death, disqualification, or inability of one of the persons selected as a regular grand juror. The names of those persons selected as grand jurors and alternate grand jurors shall be deleted from the grand jury list.
They put the case before the Grand Jury which was already empaneled.
Which had been empaneled back before anyone had ever heard of Mike Brown or Darren Wilson.
The decision to have alternates for that jury would have had to have been made, and alternates would have had to have been chosen, back at the beginning from someone in the judicial branch of the government, and not by McCullouch or any of his people who are all executive branch and have no say in the matter.
If they had decided to impanel a separate Grand Jury specifically to deal with the Brown/Wilson matter, trying to choose jurors for it would have been an absolute 37 ring circus, with people like Benjamin Crump trying to appoint themselves to “special status, as co-counsel of sorts, for the prosecution”, and who knows who trying to insert themselves as amici curiae on any and all sides of the issue for the purposes of influencing juror selection.
It would make the Scopes case or the Simpson trial look like a magistrate handling traffic tickets, and chances are excellent that the GJ’s term would be over before they ever got the jurors and alternates selected and the jury .empaneled.
I stand corrected..thanks
I am foolishly seeing conspiracies everywhere. Typically a grand jury works for months on lots of cases. This was obviously different, more like a grand jury for a case of corruption. Because a grand juror can serve for months, and 12 jurors in St. Louis County must be present, I was surprised that there were no alternates available.
I misspoke on the above comments. The prosecutor needs 9 jurors to agree for an indictment. In short the breakdown could be 8 for an indictment and 4 against. Then there would not be an indictment. When Prosecutor McCulloch gave the impression that the jurors collectively came to a decision, he ruffled the sensibilities of some of the jurors.
@ Gronda Morin,
I suspect McColloch did more than ruffle the sensibilities of some of the jurors and I hope he gets taken down a notch or two.
We’ll see.
There is more good news. As per 1/5/15 ST. Louis Public Radio article by Rachel Lippmann,
“St. Louis County prosecutor Bob McCulloch and two of his assistants are facing a misconduct complaint for the way they handled the grand jury that investigated former Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson.”
“The complaint was filed 1/5/15. It accuses McCulloch and assistants Kathi Alizadeh and Sheila Whirley of “gross failure to vigorously represent their client – the citizens of St. Louis, Missouri, in their capacity as prosecutors.” Alizadeh and Whirley were in charge of presenting the Wilson case to the grand jury.”
“We would like to send the message that prosecuting attorneys can no longer abuse their power and expect it to be swept under the rug,” said Christi Griffin, a former attorney who is the founder and president of the Ethics Project, and one of seven citizens to sign the complaint.”
On 1/6/15, the NAACP is stepping up to plate. An article by “Think Progress” by Judd Legum reports the NAACP Legal Defense Fund has written a letter to the Missouri Judge, Maura McShane, imploring her to investigate the Ferguson Prosecutor Robert McCulloch and his team for “Misconduct. The NAACP letter points out that as per Missouri Law, Statute 56.110, Judge McShane has the power to investigate Prosecutor McCulloch and to appoint a special prosecutor to restart this case against the Police Officer Darren Wilson. The following are excerpts from the letter:
1.) “McCulloch and his team knowingly presented false witness testimony to the grand jury.
.) McCulloch and his team presented incorrect and misleading statements of the law to the grand jury and sanctioned unlawful juror practices. Specifically, Assistant prosecuting Attorney, Kathi Alizadeh distributed copies of a Missouri Statute that was contravened by a Supreme Court decision 30 years earlier. When Alizadeh addressed the issue weeks later she said, that the statute was “not entirely incorrect or inaccurate,” but the grand jury should “disregard” it. At other times, Ms. Alizadeh seems genuinely confused about what legal standards were at issue and shared her confusion with the grand jury, including this remarkable exchange. A grand juror asked if the legal standard required to determine the outcome of this case, would be outlined in writing for the jurors. This is Ms. Alizadeh’s response:
“I don’t know because we don’t know. If this matter were a trial, it would be different because obviously, in a trial, it is beyond a reasonable doubt. And in a trial, it is the obligation of the defense to raise the issue, and if the issue is raised, it becomes the obligation of the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person did not act in lawful self defense or was not justified in the use of force, but that is a trial setting.
So we don’t know how this, this investigation was, we talked about it yesterday, is not typical on how we would present cases to the grand jury. This is an investigation and I believe, and I think Sheila agrees, I don’t want to speak for you, that your determination of whether or not force was justified, either as self defense or use of force to affect an arrest is part of your decision process.
So that’s something for you to consider. I don’t think the answer is simply, well, we believe that a crime was committed, you know, probable cause to believe that a crime was committed and he dis it, and not talk about those defenses.
But I don’t know, we don’t know what kind of instructions to give you. Do you have to believe that there’s probable cause that he used excessive force. I don’t know, we don’t know that. We don’t want to tell you the wrong thing. So we’re still trying to work that out.”
The NAACP also pointed out that the assistant prosecutors gave the grand jurors instructions that they could do internet research which they were strictly cautioned not to do by a judge at the beginning of this hearing.
3.) McCulloch and his team “provided favorable treatment to the target of the grand jury proceedings.”
“The NAACP concludes that the entire process “leaves deeply troubling doubts about whether about whether justice was administered in a fair, impartial and competent manner.” The NAACP encourages Judge McShane to consider “remedial action — through a new grand jury, appointment of a new special prosecutor, or other means.”
The assistant prosecutors do not appear very competent in this grand jury hearing.
@ Gronda Morin,
Thanks, I saw something about that yesterday.
That Alizadeh sounds like she might not be the sharpest knife in drawer.
I think McColloch is another matter. He might have been able to pass off some of his actions as mere ‘blunders’ if he’d been able to contain himself after the GJ decision, but his attitude on display in interviews/quotes afterwards really set my teeth on edge. Those were his real blunders: showing his ass. He made it pretty clear to me that he hadn’t wanted Wilson to face any charges. Odd attitude for a prosecutor, to say the least.
I’ve been adding to Lawrence O’Donnell’s comments on
Witness 10. The media has not covered the fact that he is the only one who claims Michael Brown was inside the Officer Wilson’s SUV.I
What I am referring to is that Witness 10 in his 8/11/14 interview with the ST. Louis County lead detective, as per page 9-10, report 14-43984, he specifically states that he saw Michael Brown inside Officer Wilson’s SUV. Here are some excerpts:
The lead detective asks, “I just wanna make sure I understand okay? You see him in the car. You can’t necessarily tell what’s going on but after hearing the gun shot and seeing him run off, you make an assumption that there’s some sort of confrontation or conflict in side the car, right?”
Witness 10 responds, “Yes.”
The lead detective inquires, “Okay, so how…roughly how long do you think that he is, that Michael Brown is in the car?”
Witness 10 says, “Maybe at least 10 seconds from what I seen.”
Then on page 5 of the ST. Louis County police report #14-43984, Witness 10 continues with the following remarks:
“And, Um, I must say what it was but I thought I heard something metal hit the ground and I’m not sure what it was. Um, I went in to tell the people that I was working with that I just..what I witnesses and I came back out and they were taping the scene off and I decided, I went down there closer to where the body was and I stayed down there ten..5 to 10 minutes.”
He describes seeing a blue Monte Carlo at the scene about 3 times during this same interview. All the other witnesses including those in the car describe the color as white.
Witness 10 is so accommodating and willing to say whatever the police wish to hear that I couldn’t help but wonder why? I started speculating as to whether he might owe the police a favor, or perhaps he is a confidential informant. I do not know what the answer is but his statements were so in line with Officer Wilson and at odds to the vast majority of other credible witnesses, that they should have asked themselves, was Witness 10 too good to be true? This part of my conspiracy fantasies.
Did the police ask leading questions of #10 that got them to make the car blue?
They might have suspected the validity of the witness and deliberately let them impeach their own testimony so as to be able to rule it out.
For a major resource, I have been using “ST. Louis Public Radio Ferguson Evidence. The ST. Louis County PD, Crimes Against Persons Bureau detective did the initial interview with Witness 10. For the record, he is the only witness that agreed with Officer Wilson on 100% of his accounts.
On page 5 of the transcript of this interview, it goes like this:
Witness 10 says: “Um, if I had to guess the rounds that were fired, then it would be 4 to 5 more shots and after that Mr. Brown collapsed and fell to the ground.”
The detective says: “What happened then?”
Witness 10: “Um, what happened then after that um I didn’t see, it was a-a blue Monte Carlo, a-a newer model Monte Carlo, two door and um, it was closer to the scene where the shooting was at, that occurred.”
Witness 10 is the one volunteering the blue color in other parts of the interview.
This is one of the issues that causes me to become conspiracy crazy. He ended up being a major witness that the prosecutors relied on to corroborate Officer Wilson’s accounts.
The lead detective’s running report is 14-43984 where he ref. doing an interview with Witness 10 but there is a separate transcript of the 8/11 Witness 10 interview.
One of my pet peeves is that the while the media closely followed this case, there hasn’t been the in depth investigation that I would have liked to have seen and a lot of facts have been missed and /or glossed over.
For example, On Volume I of the Grand Jury Hearing transcription, page 53, the St. Louis County Medical Examiner’s investigator noted that two five dollar bills were found in Michael Brown’s pockets at the crime scene on 8/9/14, and so Michael Brown did have monies on him to pay for some cigarillos.
According to a 8/26/13 NPR article, Patti Neighmond reported the following:Stores in areas dominated by young people had far more ads for little cigars, compared with markets in other neighborhoods….And the price is right, too. Unlike cigarettes, which cost about $6.50 a pack and can’t be sold individually, little cigars are wrapped in packages of one, two or three and average about 99 cents per cigar. “
In a synopsis on what the St. Louis County police detected as they viewed their video copy of the convenient store theft by Michael Brown on 8/9/14 which they obtained before midnight on 8/9/14, detailed on pages 52-57 of their police report #14-43984, I found the following:
The store manager identified the second item as a 15 count packet of Swisher Sweet brand of cigarillos, regular flavor, valued at approximately $15.00. The first item which appeared to be placed back on the counter by Johnson was recovered from inside the store.
I recall an incident from 5 years ago. The Harvard student, privileged daughter of the then New York’s Mayor Rudy Giuliani was caught shop lifting $100 worth of make up from a Sephora’s store. She was arrested; charged with petty larceny and served one day in community service as a consequence. In comparison, it does not seem to me that Michael Brown deserved the death penalty for his indiscretion.
In two of Officer Wilson’s statements to police on 8/9 and 8/10/14, he mentions how he first learned of the convenient store theft from a dispatch broadcast before he approached the two young men walking in the middle of the road. Yet, on 8/15/14, the Ferguson police chief is stating specifically that the convenient store theft had nothing to do with the initial contact between Officer Wilson and the Michael Brown. Officer Wilson’s assertion is completely counter to what his sergeant supervisor stated during his grand jury testimony.
Just for the record, the Sergeant supervisor who was the on duty superior on 8/9/14 and who was the first officer to debrief Officer Wilson about the shooting, provided grand jury testimony which specifically indicates that Officer Wilson had no knowledge of the convenient store theft. The data on this fact can be found in Volume V of the grand jury transcriptions, page 56. The following reflects what was discussed.
The prosecutor asked, “Did he talk about the stealing that occurred at Ferguson Market, that he was stopping these two to investigate that?”
The sergeant supervisor answered, “He said he did not have that call, that call I later found out was given to Officer xxxx.”
The prosecutor followed up, “Did he know about it, did he talk about the stealing?”
The sergeant supervisor responded, “He did not know anything about the stealing call.”
The press has been repeating the police and prosecutors’ rhetoric that the autopsy proves that Michael Brown was not shot in the back and there is no forensic proof of Michael Brown’s raised arms.
In the autopsy report by the St. Louis County Office of Medical Examiner, Exam Case # 2014-5143, on pages 3-4, the medical examiner lists the following gun shot injuries sustained by Michael Brown on 8/9/2014.
6.) There is a gunshot entrance wound of the upper ventral right arm.
7.) There is a gunshot exit wound of the upper dorsal right arm.
8.) There is a gun shot entrance wound of the dorsal right fore arm.
9.) There is a gun shot exit wound of ventral right fore arm.
10.) There is a tangential (graze) gun shot wound of the right bicep.
I point out that it is possible that Michael Brown incurred the grazed wound to his right bicep and the entrance wound of the upper ventral arm as his arms were partially raised. It is my contention that when he suffered the entrance wound of the dorsal (back side) oh his right fore arm , this could have been incurred while Michael brown was running away, which could account for Dorian Johnson and others being convinced that he was shot in the back.
The trauma unit report can be found listed as item 1, Pages 1-15 on the lead detective’s report #14-43984. The documentation notes that the x-rays taken indicate no fractures or dislocation. He was diagnosed as having a facial contusion (bruise) on the right side of his face. During the grand jury hearing (Volume III of Witness Testimony, Page 22-27), the crime scene investigator stated that officer Wilson confirmed that he did not have any cuts or bleeding. Officer Wilson’ s admission of him not having any bloody wounds and his admission that the gun had blood on it which he placed into the evidence envelop means that he transferred Michael’s blood and DNA onto the gun and so, the forensic data showing Michael Brown’s DNA on the gun means nothing.
On page 15 of the St. Louis County PD report #14-43984, it is documented that Officer Wilson describes that while back at the station, he observed apparent blood on the back of his left forearm and the front of his right hand. He did take time to wash his hands and clean up before departing to be driven to the emergency room. Remember the trauma unit report does not detail any bloody wounds on Officer Wilson’s body.
The St Louis County lead detective, noted that there was blood present on the slide and frame of Police Officer Darren Wilson’s gun that he had placed into evidence.
Here is my run down on the various witnesses Many were clearly not credible or witnessed virtually nothing and shouldn’t have testified at the grand jury.
Witness 46 stated that she saw the smaller companion at the window of the police car. Witness 45 claims to have seen two police officers instead of just Officer Wilson in the Police SUV. Witness 44 admits that she was not wearing her contact lenses the day when she saw Michael Brown stepping backwards before he was fatally shot. Witness 43 is certain that the police officer was using a Taser on Michael Brown. Witness 38 was going to the trash bin when she noticed two boys talking to a police officer followed up the officer reversing back his SUV in front of them but that is all she saw. Witness 37 said the police officer fired about 3 or 4 shots while he was still in his vehicle. Witness 35 who had hung out with Michael Brown on a daily basis for many years tells how his friend was on his knees with his hands held high when the officer shot him in the head. Witness 30, an admitted felon told police on 8/13/14 that he saw Michael Brown pointing a gun in his direction. Witness 26 in her 8/11 police interview corrected the detective who referred to the police vehicle as a SUV by insisting that the police vehicle at the crime scene was a regular police car.
Witness 33 confused the FBI on 8/21 with all his ramblings. He was a construction worker who talked to Michael Brown for about 30 minutes on 8/9. The agents kept haranguing him with questions about wax. Then they asked if he had been conducting any drug transactions. They got nowhere with this line of questioning as it would have been impossible for anyone to follow his commentaries. He is definitely not fit to be a witness for anyone. Other witnesses such as Witness 40 and 41 were not even in the area. I count at least 11 eye witnesses that any prosecutor or defense attorney would not allow anywhere near a witness stand.
There is the major myth about raised arms. The media has reported about Michael Brown having raised hands as a sign of surrender before being fatally shot by Police Officer Darren Wilson. The majority of what I consider the more credible witnesses state that Michael Brown’s hands were raised about shoulder height for at least some of the time. Outlier witnesses include Witness 10 who said he never saw any raised arms and Witness 5, Dorian Johnson who states that “Big Mike’s” arms were raised high with one arm lower because he had been hurt.
As per the crime scene investigator’s testimony in Volume I of Grand Jury hearing ,there were no shell casings found inside the police SUV. With the distance of 6-8″ that Michael Brown was shot in his right hand by Officer Wilson when both were near the SUV; and that any DNA discovered within the SUV and on the gun was compromised by Officer Wilson’s own negligent blood transference of Michael Brown’s DNA unto the gun and SUV, thus, there is no physical evidence which definitively proves that Michael Brown attempted to take the officer’s gun. Remember, there was the decision to not fingerprint test the gun.
There are those excusing not fingerprinting the gun because officer Wilson alleged that Michael Brown covered the officer’s hand while he was struggling for the gun. Within the St. Louis County Police Department Investigative Report # 14-43984 on page 14, one can read the police statement that Police Officer Darren Wilson provided post trauma unit visit on 8/9/2014. He states, “Brown’s hand was large enough to encompass the top of the slide, a large portion of the hand grips and the trigger guard. It would have provided and important piece of the puzzle if Michael Brown’s fingerprints were on the gun.
Besides Whonoze, I have not read or heard the common sense question, “Is it easier to believe that Michael Brown turned around to face officer Wilson after hearing gun shots being fired behind him or that he just voluntarily turned around after he was successfully fleeing from someone who had just shot him?”
This list can go on forever but the above facts not being covered by the press bothers me.
I went back to review my notes. I need to make a correction re the above mentioned crime scene investigator. The transcript of his testimony can be found in Vol II of gj hearing and not vol I. On page 154, he says no shell casings found inside Officer Wilson’s SUV. on pgs 105-109, the forensic evidence collected is on exterior of SUV.
Hat tip to Xena at her blackbutterfly7 wordpress blog for the news that fellow blogger Dr. Rex finally was able to marry her partner of many years:
hrexach at wordpress 20150107
Congratulations and best wishes to Dr. Rex.
And to everybody else: See? Not everything in Florida sucks 24/7. };-)
Ditto on your sentiments!!! Thanks for letting me know!!!!
@Gronda Morin,
Boldface font my edit for emphasis:
No indeed, especially since, per the records, Wilson didn’t even know about the convenience store incident. When Wilson rapidly reversed his SUV, he was likely upset about Brown and Johnson persistently jaywalking.
I can understand not being well-pleased about that, but as a public servant, especially one bearing arms, Wilson needed to keep his cool.
Oh, and excellent research on your part!
“[S]crodriguez” has a new installment up on the blackbutterfly7 wordpress blog about his court (mis)adventures in dealing with a stalker:
scrodriguez at blackbutterfly7 on wordpress 20150108
The average reader might be incredulous, but anybody who’s read anything written by the stalker and knows anything of his personal, ‘real world’ history won’t be.
Taxpayer money would be better spent getting the stalker some much needed medical attention.
On Martin Luther King Day:
USATODAY 20150119
The latest installment from “scrodriguez” on the blackbutterfly7 wordpress blog about his ongoing legal battles with cyberstalkers:
blackbutterfly7 at wordpress 20150123
It looks unbelievable to anybody who hasn’t spent much time on the Internet, but it’s tragically real.
Thanks for the tip. I did go to the link. It turns out Ms. Filth in 2013 had used my blog for nefarious purposes which had affected Xena’s blog. I was oblivious about the whole situation. I had stopped blogging for a few months and she was not able to warn me. She has been invited on y blog as an administrator because I am simply not proficient enough on the computer to fix things. I was simply not going to blog again until she rescued me. This literally can happen to anyone. For anyone who reads the above comments on cyber stalking, please read the blog.
@ Gronda Morin,
Somehow I missed this comment of yours. I’m sorry to hear about it.
I still wonder whether some of these GZ supporters who do ethically reprehensible (or even potentially criminal) things are doing them for ‘profit.’
Hat tip to “towerflower” at the blackbutterfly7 wordpress blog for her reminiscence about the Challenger shuttle tragedy on January 28, 1986:
blackbutterfly7 20150128
Very true.
As to this:
No, my dear, but the ancestor of the Internet itself (ARPANET) was a military invention.
It’s a not altogether palatable truth that fear — and war — frequently drive invention.
Hat tip to Xena at her blackbutterfly7 wordpress blog for this story (boldface font my edit for emphasis):
blackbutterfly7 at wordpress dot com 20150209
It looks like the law (in Illinois at least) is finally starting to get hip to the age of the Internet.
Maladjusted fourteen year olds of all ages need to get hip to the fact that what they do is not okay.
Happy Valentine’s Day to all and special shout outs to “scrodriguez” (his eighth wedding anniversary), and “butterflydreamer2” (who hasn’t been well of late) at the blackbutterfly7 wordpress blog.
And just for the hell of it, the fabulous Ochi Chyornye (Dark Eyes) BeBop jam:
YouTube