Home > Uncategorized > Broken thread conspiracy theory :-)

Broken thread conspiracy theory :-)

When the posts get all out of chronological order, maybe it’s not WordPress, but Zimmerman anti-karma. Since none of his accounts make any sense in terms of space and time, that spatio-temporal dislocation could infect any attempt to discuss the case at length in a single thread. OK, I read too much Philip K. Dick, but in many ways this case in stranger than sci-fi. The struggle to find truth faces many obstacles, and yet, we feel compelled to continue. Yay, us!   🙂

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  1. wordsalad2009
    September 7, 2013 at 11:39 AM

    Thanks, Perfesser

    I see that you also ‘liberated’ my last comment in the old thread which had gotten hung up in moderation.

    Just for future reference, was that comment stuck in moderation because it had two links, because I had submitted too many comments in a short period of time, or because the thread overall was pretty hopelessly fouled?

    • September 7, 2013 at 1:10 PM

      The links, I assume.

      Actually, if I haven’t looked at the threads for a few days, and one gets out of control, creating a post with two links will get my attention, as I’ll get a ‘request to moderate’ in my email.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 7, 2013 at 1:41 PM

        Ah, so I should be taking my own advice about not putting more than one link in a single post. };-)

        Thanks for the new thread. You know, on top of everything else you’ve done.

  2. davidboes
    September 7, 2013 at 5:48 PM

    whonoze, I did notice wordsalad cutting in-between comments, and he was placing links very leisurely for the weather. 😉 Thanks for the new thread!

    wordsalad, yes multiple links, and it seems that any post flagged for moderation has the potential to break the thread. Thank you for the clarification on the RATL arrival time, and your other comments in the other thread.

    • wordsalad2009
      September 7, 2013 at 8:34 PM

      davidboes, Not that it matters terribly, but I’m a she. 🙂

      • davidboes
        September 7, 2013 at 9:39 PM

        Ah, then it is conspiracy! 😉

  3. September 7, 2013 at 6:40 PM

    latest developments roundup:

    Shellie Zimmerman allegedly filed for divorce according to her lawyer, widely reported

    some legal papers have been made public regarding this

    a reporter got a family friend on the record who claims GZ left and went AWOL on the marriage for a month

    Shellie gave a second on camera interview with a different (black) ABC reporter commenting on the intention to divorce and GZ’s behavior

    have i missed anything?

    Questions I have:

    The claim was made that court papers were filed on the 13th of august. If so was this prior to the O’COnner interview and it’s hinting at divorce but not confirming? If so what was the motive for waiting? Was this SHellie’s only means of contacting GZ? Seems unlikely.

    What legal avenues are going to be opened if the two are divorced? Could she now be called as a hostile witness, for example in a civil suit and be compelled to testify where previously she could not?

    What are the details concerning the partial deposition that Shellie gave and walked out on? Would a FOIA request yield the contents?

    How have you been, Amsterdam?

    thanks for new thread.

    • davidboes
      September 7, 2013 at 7:41 PM

      willisnewton, I haven’t seen any legal analysis on the question as to whether she can be compelled to testify in Civil suit, or Civil Liberties case.

    • wordsalad2009
      September 7, 2013 at 8:45 PM

      willisnewton,

      “The claim was made that court papers were filed on the 13th of august. If so was this prior to the O’COnner interview and it’s hinting at divorce but not confirming? If so what was the motive for waiting? Was this SHellie’s only means of contacting GZ? Seems unlikely.”

      Sorry, I think I’m the one responsible for disseminating bit of misinformation, because I misread that one article I posted a link for in the last thread. It said that GZ and SZ separated on August 13th, but that she only filed for divorce this past Thursday:

      Sun-Sentinel Article

      However, given the number of lies in this case, I think it’s only prudent to be a bit cynical about this divorce.

      • davidboes
        September 7, 2013 at 9:19 PM

        I agree, and the Zimmerman defense which in my mind has included everyone involved from SPD to the Governor has handled this spectacularly. This became more than just a dirty South Florida police concern over one of their favored town watchmen. This became a case against Stand Your Ground and Self Defense with a legal firearm. Since the appointment of Corey as Special Prosecutor it was apparent that they wanted to keep the Feds out, and preserve the political and corporate agendas behind the Florida law. So, while Shellie’s world maybe coming undone there is still an enormous concern for how this is handled in the aftermath. It’s interesting to consider that she’s jumped ship, but until she publically goes against the self defense script, then it’s more likely just more intelligent handling at play.

    • amsterdam1234
      September 9, 2013 at 4:57 AM

      Hi Willis,
      I am fine, thank you.
      You were interested in Shellie and GZ’s disinterested behavior towards each other during the trial, weren’t you?
      I am hoping for a nasty divorce. I want Shellie to tell all.

      Did you ever noticed what GZ said in the car during the reenactment, about Trayvon looking inside his car? “he was trying to see who else… I don’t know what hè was looking at”. I never noticed that readjustment until during the trial. I never thought another person was in that car, because I believe Trayvon would’ve mentioned it to Rachel. I still don’t believe a second person was in that car when GZ was following Trayvon down TTL. So what was he talking about?

  4. davidboes
    September 7, 2013 at 6:50 PM

    “Why are your following me?”

    Daniel Trotta interviewed Tracy Martin in Sanford, Florida for a Reuters article. Tracy Martin described how the SPD broke the news to him the day after the murder.

    (Reuters) Martin recalls what Serino said: “He told me Zimmerman’s story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are your following me?’ Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon ‘I’m not following you.’ He rolls his car windows up.”

    Trayvon Martin: Before the world heard the cries
    By Daniel Trotta (Reuters) Apr 3, 2012

    We have Tracy Martin describing events as told by Serino that is yet another version of the events of that evening. What is interesting is that he claims that Trayvon asks ‘Why are your following me?’

    I’ve long suspected, as many of you may have that SPD, and particularly Serino, were involved in a cover-up that included coaching and staged interviews from the beginning. What Tracy recalls on or before Apr 3, 2012 of Serino’s description of events told on Feb 27 is interesting because it has Serino uttering the phrase that Rachel heard Trayvon say at the moment of the confrontation. “Why are your following me?”

    • wordsalad2009
      September 7, 2013 at 9:19 PM

      davidboes, I’ve been reading back through the last tortured-by-wordpress thread, and found this from you:

      ” I’m not finding whonoze’s narrative again?”

      I’m not sure I can provide a text version, but whonoze describes his speculative theory about GZ going south down the easternmost stretch of Retreat View Circle in his YouTube video:

      teeslaw AKA whonoze’s video

      I haven’t watched it again in a long time, but I think the part about GZ going down RVC is toward the end. I also recall that there were a few boo-boos in the whole video, probably due to a rush to ‘go to press.’

      • davidboes
        September 7, 2013 at 10:09 PM

        wordsalad, thank you, I watched it again (at the end). It makes sense from the stand point that Zimmerman wanted to see the back entrance while in pursuit. However, it makes the statement that I found significant, “It’s a home it’s 1950, oh crap I don’t want to give it all out, I don’t know where this kid is.” out of place if spoken on RVC. That’s why I mentioned that a scenario that get’s GZ to the Green home ahead of Trayvon made more sense if the course taken was along the dog path. Thanks again!

  5. September 7, 2013 at 7:55 PM

    Serino is more complex than that. He told Austin’s mom that he felt GZ was lying, and that race was involved. Plus he pushed for manslaughter and murder charges to be pursued. And tellingly he pointed off the map during the trial to seemingly say he felt the incident started near the clubhouse….

    Absent a credible outside investigation into the SPD and WOlfinger, we arent going to get all the answers we want. The truth is a slippery thing.

    • davidboes
      September 7, 2013 at 8:46 PM

      I don’t give him as much credit as you do, or rather perhaps I give him more. I agree his involvement has been complex. Serino’s contradictions are known. I am not impressed that he claimed, or made it appear as if he wanted to press charges, as that would have been necessary to cover up his complicity in the self defense claim. Yes, absent an investigation.

  6. September 8, 2013 at 12:04 AM

    davidboes :
    However, it makes the statement that I found significant, “It’s a home it’s 1950, oh crap I don’t want to give it all out, I don’t know where this kid is.” out of place if spoken on RVC.

    This is one of the statements made by GZ in his NEN call that suggest to me that he was under the influence of whatever substances.
    Indeed, previous calls reveal that many of the statements were actually formulas that he would apply. The refusal to give his address is one of them. Giving the clubhouse’s address is another one.
    In his NEN, GZ failed where he usually succeeded. Not giving his home address is one example. He also failed giving the clubhouse’s address properly. He could not give proper directions to meet police frustrating SN. He failed remembering the name of Twin Trees Ln., the street he takes each time he goes out and in the complex, each time he goes for his mail. In comparison, in a previous call he remembered Callabria Springs Cove, a street outside the complex. Finally, he failed not following the kid. He mistake he was close to making in that same previous call but SZ stopped him.

    • davidboes
      September 8, 2013 at 1:25 AM

      tchoupi, so you think the significance of his developed formula, or method of not giving out his address, or locations diminishes the significance of his statement that he doesn’t know where this kid is? In your research of his earlier calls did he ever use that or similar excuse? Again, I can research it myself, but I appreciate very much your insight. Still, as far as his state of mind goes the entire call seems in question, however the remark (‘I don’t know where this kid is at’) has that quality and tone where GZ seems to be talking to himself as with many remarks throughout the call when he spoke out loud in what seemed to be only about not seeing, or finding TM.

      • September 8, 2013 at 1:37 AM

        I see it (it=”don’t give your address out loud”) as a safety rule that he followed except on that night.

        The “I don’t know where this kid is” was more a reminder of why the safety rule must be followed.
        It should have reminded him of the rule that he perfectly knew about not following the individual that you find suspicious.
        It also shows that he perfectly knew TM was a kid.

        • davidboes
          September 8, 2013 at 2:23 AM

          tchoupi, I understand, and the confirmation of his knowing TM’s age was discovered early on. I just thought that the part about not knowing where TM was at, was more significant than what your knowledge and insight revealed for me.

    • davidboes
      September 8, 2013 at 2:16 AM

      tchoupi, I checked the recordings, and confirmed the formula you mentioned. There is two where he uses a similar excuse for not giving out his address, and one could be considered very similar. I think that does diminish the notion that he thought TM was near enough to overhear him at the time of the call. Not completely, for the other reason I mentioned, and for the specific and different information held in each similar excuse I listened to., Still, it definitely diminishes the significance I had given it, and enough to remove my misgivings about whonoze’s RVC to Green home scenario. Thanks again for the insight!

      • September 8, 2013 at 11:06 AM

        DavidBoes, it would be nice if you could compile a list of what GZ did well in previous calls that he did wrong when it came to TM and the other way too.
        It could be a good indicator of his different state of mind on that night.

        • davidboes
          September 8, 2013 at 4:27 PM

          tchoupi, there seems to be only 6 previous call recordings in circulation. I can analyze the calls in comparison for indications of what was same/different in the calls. I can also compare/differentiate the recordings to the many other calls on record.

    • wordsalad2009
      September 9, 2013 at 12:16 AM

      tchoupi, that’s interesting about the ‘formulas.’

      In taking a look at the police calls GZ made, he does give his full, correct address at times, but on other occasions, he doesn’t even identify himself (I guess they figured out later it was him because of the phone number?).

      Yeah, he was failing all over the place on February 26, 2012, but really, he was failing back on February 2, 2012, because he initially gave an incorrect address for Taaffe’s townhome (1960 instead of 1460):

      Page 45 of Mother Jones PDF

      GZ apparently complained repeatedly about LE response times, but I don’t know how he could expect good response times with the kind of information he was giving.

  7. September 8, 2013 at 1:22 AM

    I bring here a few quotes from SZ found in there: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/09/06/3610394/zimmermans-wife-seeks-life-insurance.html

    If she’s right then GZ won’t go away any time soon…

    ##QUOTES#########

    “I have a selfish husband and I think George is all about George,”

    Shellie Zimmerman says her husband was verbally abusive toward her and that he has been making what she considers “reckless decisions.”

    “In my opinion, he feels more invincible” since his acquittal

  8. September 8, 2013 at 1:38 AM

    Hey Whonoze. I have made some significant updates to the report and I would appreciate your feedbacks if you have time.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Sy6soSh3-wG7v9j20_3189BJh8ZqYDVAX73C95QkFFs/edit?usp=sharing

  9. September 8, 2013 at 7:40 PM

    I’ve been lurking for quite some time,
    Pretty much completely obsessed with this case since the beginning. The one thing I always come back to is why didn’t Tim Smith approach the scene of a shots fired call with his weapon drawn. Protocol would have been, zimmerman & manalo to get on the ground. A police officer does not approach a shots fired call, basicly down a dark allyway, with a flashlight & approaches 2 strangers & asks what happened? It just does not make sense.. Can somebody explain that to me?

    • amsterdam1234
      September 9, 2013 at 1:15 PM

      Tim Smith never even acknowledged that Manalo was at the scene. He did’t mention him in his police report, didn’t mention him at the trial. Prosecution never even asked about that.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 9, 2013 at 2:31 PM

        Wasn’t there an unnamed person who was asked to leave the scene of the homicide? Did anyone ever figure out who that was?

        • amsterdam1234
          September 9, 2013 at 5:21 PM

          The only officer who mentions an unauthorized person at the crime scene was Santiago. According to his narrative in the police report, the person was a white male not. Later when he was questioned by FDLE, he changed it to oriental.

    • September 9, 2013 at 2:05 PM

      The person to “explain that to (you)” is Ofc Tim Smith but he wasn’t asked by anyone who cared to make the matter a part of the public record. The prosecution had no interest in making the SPD look biased or incompetent because that’s not how you get a conviction. Bringing up problems is like handing the defense openings to tear down a narrative. (Not that the rprosecution presented a coherent narrative, but that is the general principal involved.)

      The answer that we as observers can come up with is that he is either incompetent or else didn’t expect to come upon the people so quickly. If GZ was all the way up near the T (where his keychain flashlight was found) then GZ may have seen Tim Smith first and hailed him before Smith had a chance to ready himself. It does seem worth noting and I always felt it was odd. There’s more to this meeting than has been told.

      The fact that he didn’t put the two on the ground is more telling about his attitude. He basically went through the motions but essentially believed the story from the get-go that a white resident concealed handgun owner had been jumped by a black criminal and then shot dead by Zimmerman in self defense. We don’t know enough to say for certain but it’s likely he knew who GZ was already.

      Smith’s wife was one of the main crime scene investigators. She seems to have done a semi-adequate job but things like the earphones turned out to be important evidence that was not handled 100 properly for whatever reason. The possibility of blood on the sidewalk turned out to matter as well, but wasn’t preserved. I don’t see this as conspiracy, just normal shoddy work in a place that has very few homicides.

      Smith’s written report is a matter of curiosity and speculation as well. THe timing of the release of various versions of what was made public is problematical. If you want to run down that rabbit hole that’s another story.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 9, 2013 at 2:37 PM

        Tim Smith was the responder on the February 2, 2012 incident, so it seems likely that he knew who GZ was from that alone. GZ actually identified himself as Neighborhood Watch on that one.

  10. September 9, 2013 at 3:35 PM

    From the OS:
    George Zimmerman in custody, police investigate ‘possible domestic battery’

    George Zimmerman, the former Neighborhood Watch volunteer acquitted of murder in the shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, has been detained as authorities investigate a domestic incident in Lake Mary, police confirmed.

    Police are investigating a “possible domestic battery” involving Zimmerman on Sprucewood Road, Lake Mary police Officer Zach Hudson said this afternoon. The police spokesman said it was his understanding that a gun was involved.

    Hudson said the investigation is in its early stages, and it was unclear whether Zimmerman or anyone would be arrested. No significant injuries were suffered in the incident, Hudson said.

    The police activity is in the area of a house where, as the Orlando Sentinel reported earlier today , George and Shellie Zimmerman lived during his high-profile trial in Trayvon’s shooting.

    Shellie Zimmerman’s attorney told the Sentinel this afternoon he was heading to the scene.

    • September 9, 2013 at 3:39 PM

      The earlier report on the house:
      “George and Shellie Zimmerman’s house: A $240,000 showplace with a pool, spa and fireplace”

      http://tinyurl.com/ptgd2nc

      • wordsalad2009
        September 9, 2013 at 4:46 PM

        “The people who own the house, an Orlando-area husband and wife who own several pieces of real estate, were unavailable for comment.”

        But that’s OK, because we’ll comment. };-)

        Yumpin’ Yiminy, just when you think this case can’t get anymore offensive and bizarre, it does.

        As to the alleged domestic battery: the experts do say that the most dangerous time for an abused person is after they’ve left their abuser.

        Eh, stay tuned.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 9, 2013 at 4:49 PM

        NYDN says the house belongs to SZ’s father:

        My House Belongs to Daddy

      • wordsalad2009
        September 9, 2013 at 5:21 PM

        Hmmm, is this the same place?:

        Not quite a cul-de-sac, more like a dead-end

        • wordsalad2009
          September 9, 2013 at 5:26 PM

          All right, when you do a 360 spin in Street View, it is a cul-de-sac.

          I’ll shut up for awhile now.

    • wassointeresting
      September 9, 2013 at 5:54 PM

      From Click Orlando:
      “George Zimmerman is cooperating and is calm, according to police, but is accusing Shellie Zimmerman of being the aggressor in the conflict.”

      Geez Louise, how many times have we heard that before????

      http://www.clickorlando.com/news/george-zimmerman-taken-into-custody-after-incident-with-gun-police-say/-/1637132/21851424/-/tlxm3oz/-/index.html

      • wordsalad2009
        September 9, 2013 at 6:09 PM

        All right, I know I said that I’d shut up for a while, but this was more than I could resist:

        Um, yeah, where have we heard that before?

        “Zimmerman, acquitted in July of the murder of teenager Trayvon Martin, claimed that he was acting in a “defensive manner” during the incident, according to police.”

        • September 9, 2013 at 6:14 PM

          I guess Shellie and her pops are lucky GZ didn’t Stand His Ground and plug ’em.

  11. September 9, 2013 at 4:18 PM

    Hey Willis, first, he should have had the gun out immediately exiting the car. ( for his own safety) second, it could have been zimmerman dead on the ground, for all he knew. You don’t ” just go through the motions” in a shots fired situation. John Guys questions tells the story. A lawyer does not ask a question he doesn’t know the answer to. Hey tchoup.. Count how many times Tim Smith blinks during his testimony. The guy is a flat out liar..

    • September 12, 2013 at 10:51 AM

      I agree 100% about having his gun ready in a shots fired situation. The question is, what COULD he have heard or known in advance that made him act differently? He drove fast once he passed the mail kiosk – why? Was this because he’d just gotten the update from “See the man” to “shots fired?”

      I agree he appeared very nervous on the stand and it seems the conversation between GZ< TZ and Manalo was probably a lot more in depth than we are being told by the questions asked of them.

  12. amsterdam1234
    September 9, 2013 at 6:31 PM

    Here is a familar sight. I wonder what is in that bag the officer is carrying. http://tinyurl.com/ogn6289

    • September 9, 2013 at 7:00 PM

      link no good for me

      • wassointeresting
        September 9, 2013 at 7:17 PM

        Did you guys hear Shellie’s 911 call? She was so freaked out. And it sounded like GZ still has a bodyguard. He can still afford one??

        • wordsalad2009
          September 9, 2013 at 8:03 PM

          He’ll be able to afford all kinds of things so long as people continue to give him money and goods.

      • amsterdam1234
        September 9, 2013 at 7:57 PM
        • unitron
          September 9, 2013 at 10:06 PM

          When and where was that picture taken and what relevance does it have to the events of today?

          Because that’s not the shirt he was wearing today and they didn’t take him anywhere.

    • September 9, 2013 at 9:56 PM

      The bag seems filled with various prescription pill bottles. (???)

      • wassointeresting
        September 9, 2013 at 10:04 PM

        Yep, it’s a mini pharmacy he’s got there, but that photo was taken of GZ when he was arrested last year. Today, he’s in a different plaid shirt and jeans.

  13. wordsalad2009
    September 9, 2013 at 7:42 PM

    @ whonoze, It’ll be interesting to find out what story the surveillance videos tell on this story. Shellie and Pops didn’t want to file charges, but the police are reserving the right to do so until after they’ve had a gander at the videos. Hmmm…

    In the first flush of publicity, there are a couple of things that don’t quite jibe. The Click Orlando piece says SZ’s father is David Dean (as expected), but the ABC/GMA piece says his name is Colin Morgan.

    Whatever, the owner of that property at the end of Sprucewood Road may not be stinking rich, but they ain’t suffering overly much, either. There are only two plots on that end, and one has no house on it, so it’s effectively a ‘private’ cul-de-sac.

    ‘Too bad’ the nearest neighbors had to go spoil the looks of the neighborhood through conspicuous consumption of concrete:

    It Ain’t Exactly Skid Row

  14. unitron
    September 9, 2013 at 10:10 PM

    Apparently that house is owned by Shellie’s parents as a rental property and she and George were renting it from them, and were both supposed to get their stuff out because it was about to be rented by someone else (who is probably having second thoughts about that now well-known location).

    Don’t know if parents=biological mom and biological dad, or if there are any step-parents in the mix or not.

    • wordsalad2009
      September 10, 2013 at 10:03 AM

      The dude with the Welsh surname seems like he might actually be the Deputy Chief of Lake Mary PD.

  15. September 9, 2013 at 11:16 PM

    Things are going south faster than I could ever have imagined. I just can’t believe it.

    So, Shellie lied big on TV. Doing so, she disrespected the Gypsies who dream of a swimming pool. I wonder why those two divorce. They form the perfect liars match. So, I really wonder…

    MoM blames the prosecution. Everything is the normal divorce process. The only abnormal thing is that neighborhood kid crashing the reporters.

    So, things are almost surreal. GZ saves people in a car accident days after his acquittal. He reappears weeks later speeding in Texas while going nowhere. Then, he shows up in a KelTec factory near Home. He comes back with another speeding ticket near home. His wife asks for divorce calling him selfish & reckless. Finally, she calls police on him claiming the he punched her daddy in the nose and threatened them with a gun before recanting this. He stays in his truck waiting for… well police. Police, lawyers, media, that neighborhood kid, the entire world come to see the couple outside on the house under trees.

    I just can believe what is going on. But, what really leaves me speachless is that 240k for that house!!! I mean, in Portland OR, we get a 20 foot trailer in the woods for that price!!!! Ok, I stretch the truth a bit.

    • September 10, 2013 at 6:36 AM

      Great summing up, Tchoupi, and in my books at least you can’t stretch the truth with this lot because they are unbelievable. But you did forget one surrealistic detail… the curvy bottle blonde dressed in a black ball-gown who was with GZ that day while he was dressed in an oh so very lumberjack plaid shirt and jeans… just too much !!!

      : – )

      • wordsalad2009
        September 10, 2013 at 9:59 AM

        I somehow missed the blonde in the ball gown. Link, pretty please?

        • September 10, 2013 at 12:38 PM

          Hi wordsalad2,

          I have added links to videos of blondies (and Veronica Zuazo) in replies to Tchoupi a comment or two below yours.

      • September 10, 2013 at 10:32 AM

        I missed that blond. Do you have a link?

        The other thing that impresses me about GZ is how calm he is just after the storm when Police arrives. This guy is magic.

        • September 10, 2013 at 11:19 AM

          Yeah, cool as a cucumber ! Here first video…

          http://tinyurl.com/o4ytncr

          I’ll find the other video where she is more visible and post separately because as the ancient cookery refrain goes “Too many links spoil the blog”

        • September 10, 2013 at 12:33 PM

          Here’s another link,

          http://tinyurl.com/nhaz4ks

          first part shows the evvening or night gowned blonde leaning against what could be GZ’s truck (or not?). The last part may have some repeat from my first link.

          Some on the grape vine are claiming she is one of GZ’s bodyguards (rather sexy attire for tackling anyone unless you’re Jolie, Thurman, etc.), some that she is one of his legal team (strange Monday midday work attire), and others that she is his pre Shellie fiancé Veronica Zuazo but imo she doesn’t look anything like her but then videos are very fuzzy so whonoze (will put a link to VZ’s pic in another reply)

        • September 10, 2013 at 12:36 PM

          Link to Veronica Zuazo, GZ’s ex fiancé, if anyone’s interested.

          http://tinyurl.com/orjp35h

  16. September 9, 2013 at 11:43 PM

    According to the county, the property is owned by David & Machelle Dean.
    The 240k is the property value for tax purpose. The value is 330k according to Zillow.

  17. September 10, 2013 at 2:31 AM

    Worth noting that the distance according to google maps from Shellie’s dad’s to the RATL is exactly 15 minutes by car.

    Shellie claims that she was there at the RATL the evening of the killing prior to arriving at the scene post-shooting. Her current claim is that she was at her father’s house. She does NOT claim that George was anywhere specifically around the time leading up to the killing. But we know she called him at 6:48.

    I am openly speculating that she could have been the tipoff person who witnessed TM enter the complex via the shortcut, and that GZ arrived separately some 15minutes later. There’s no proof of this but FWIW none of this new “news” contradicts this theory. But if the positions were reversed, say and Shellie was the one heading to Target to grocery shop from home, and GZ were 15 minutes away we’d have another lie of substitution which seems to be part of his pattern of lies.

    Also this would explain why Shellie might be so quick to flip flop on any claims of physical violence pr criminal activity etc – the suggestion that she may have had some involvement in the circumstances that lead to the death of an unarmed teenager at the hands of her handgun carrying husband.

    • unitron
      September 10, 2013 at 2:41 AM

      Apparently that house is not where Shellie’s dad lives, but is a rental property which he and his wife own which George and Shellie had been renting from them, and both were getting their stuff out because it’s fixing to be rented to someone else (and they aren’t living together anymore anyway).

      So if Shellie was at her dad’s house (where he lives) when she got the news about the shooting, that’s not where she was.

  18. September 10, 2013 at 3:19 AM

    10 more minutes of the ABC /Christie O’Conner interview w Shellie have been posted here:

    http://zimmermanverdict.net/abc-exclusive-shellie-zimmerman/

    She speaks of GZ’s anger management issues.

    • wassointeresting
      September 10, 2013 at 7:07 AM

      She finally confirms the ex-co-worker’s statements about how he can fly off the handle at any given moment. You know if she had Baker Acted him, he wouldn’t have been able to legally carry a gun.

      • unitron
        September 10, 2013 at 1:00 PM

        She’d have had to have convinced someone in authority to Baker Act him, and I’m sure she’d have needed a lot more than “He loses his temper sometimes” to get it to happen.

    • wordsalad2009
      September 10, 2013 at 9:58 AM

      Why is this information now dribbling out bit by bit, pray tell?

      • September 10, 2013 at 10:28 AM

        Because she has a book to sale.

        • wordsalad2009
          September 10, 2013 at 11:21 AM

          Yeah, I figured as much.

          This feels like one of those days where the not-so-nice side of human nature is getting to be too much for me, and I need to bathe my brain in some good news.

        • September 10, 2013 at 12:41 PM

          In case the ancillary relief from the divorce doesn’t include a share of the pickings GZ might get from NBC, SPD, and heaven knows who else GZ might sue.

  19. September 10, 2013 at 11:15 AM

    Distance from the winterpark address to the RATL – 18 miles, aprox 12 miles via one freeway heading north.

    Time on google maps is 25 minutes but a motivated person would drive it in less.

    just sayin’

  20. wordsalad2009
    September 10, 2013 at 12:56 PM

    @ gbrbsbblogs, Thanks for the links. I’m fairly incredulous that the blonde might be GZ’s ex-fiancee, but then if it isn’t, who is the brainless baba who would want to pal around with a killer?

    I.must.stop.looking.

    Instead of hunting up some good news, I watched the tail-end of “Rififi” again, and it’s brilliant, but it doesn’t exactly wash your brain in niceness. It’s a sophisticated “crime doesn’t pay” tale, but I tend to think that in fact crime frequently does pay.

    I think the world is full of high-functioning sociopaths (and some outright psychopaths) that live pretty comfy lives, and they are only too happy for the little people to believe that crime doesn’t pay.

    Well, let’s see if I can at least go forth and be productive today.

  21. September 10, 2013 at 6:11 PM

    wordsalad2009 :
    I’m fairly incredulous that the blonde might be GZ’s ex-fiancee, but then if it isn’t, who is the brainless baba who would want to pal around with a killer?

    Let me start a list of guesses:
    – A TCTH groopie,
    – One of Don West’s daughters. Did the lady have a ice cream?
    – One of MOM’s interns: link

    • wordsalad2009
      September 10, 2013 at 8:05 PM

      Heh!

      I was lurking over at the infamous Treehouse, and somebody over there said that HLN did a segment on it in which it was claimed that SZ has already sent all of the text messages she exchanged that day with GZ to Christi O’Connor, and that the blonde is someone that’s been living with GZ at the cul-de-sac house.

      Dunno if that’s true, but I will say that a guy who’d have a live-in girlfriend in a house owned by his father-in-law needs a wheelbarrow for his gonads.

      • September 10, 2013 at 9:48 PM

        Just went there… It’s amazing how fast they choose side.
        After the racism filled posts, time is now for misogyny.

        • wordsalad2009
          September 10, 2013 at 11:18 PM

          Yah, they’re hating on SZ now, because she ‘betrayed’ GZ.

          I haven’t looked again since earlier this evening, but I don’t doubt that it’s getting pretty ugly. “Frailty, thy name is woman!”

      • September 10, 2013 at 10:53 PM

        See you forgot your mantra: “I.must.stop.looking.” But then it’s all so intriguing, isn’t it ?

        • wordsalad2009
          September 10, 2013 at 11:07 PM

          Yep.

          If I can’t get a scouting badge for GZ Watching, maybe there’s an Assholic-Watchers Anonymous group I can join.

  22. September 10, 2013 at 6:52 PM

    With all of that I totally forgot about Frank Taafee. GZ gave this man a pupose.

    From MotherJones:
    http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/09/george-zimmerman-frank-taffe-white-supremacist-podcast

    • wordsalad2009
      September 10, 2013 at 7:05 PM

      That picture of Taaffe accompanying the MJ piece puts me in mind of what Mark Twain said about the famous bust of Shakespeare: that it had the “deep, deep, deep, subtle, subtle,
      subtle expression of a bladder.”

      • September 10, 2013 at 7:25 PM

        I love that one. The one thing I’m interested in is his comment about how he knew for the 5-1 jury. I wonder if there is not a legal issue there.

        • wordsalad2009
          September 10, 2013 at 7:41 PM

          Taaffe could find his behind in yet another sling if he doesn’t shut up.

          3chickspolitico posted a piece by Xena that suggests the jury was indeed fixed:

          Was Juror B37 a Ringer?

  23. September 10, 2013 at 7:23 PM

    Surveillance videos of yesterday’s events: http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/surveillance-zimmerman-domestic-altercation-caught/vCB9kh/

    There are many people there. It looks like GZ came with movers and a truck of some sort (not visible bcs behind pillar and trees). Those guys went back and forth between the garage to the right of the screen and the truck but I could not see any item they moved. Shellie was filming this with a tablet (probably the ipad). There is not much to see until 8:30 in the movie when one of the mover suddenly seems to be putting distance between him and the garage. We can see Shellie without ipad coming out and GZ taking care (ripping) of something that he throws to the ground.

    I see no gun in this.

    • wordsalad2009
      September 10, 2013 at 7:46 PM

      The thing I’m waiting for is the video from SZ’s iPad, which could be crucial in determining whether charges are filed and against whom:

      iPad Says iLied?

  24. September 10, 2013 at 8:11 PM

    One of the best quotes from a police officer I ever read:
    “Man, it would be fantastic if you have an apartment out there [in California] for George Zimmerman. This guy is killing me.”

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/09/10/2597251/did-george-zimmerman-lie-police-yesterday/

    • wordsalad2009
      September 10, 2013 at 8:38 PM

      Heh. Ya know, California is a big state, but I’m thinking now that whonoze is living there, he’d just as soon GZ kept his behind in Florida.

      That piece contains tweets from Jeff Weiner saying that GZ could be charged with attempting to destroy evidence if they can prove he smashed the iPad.

      A little retro mood music:

  25. wordsalad2009
    September 10, 2013 at 9:08 PM

    Well, now we have dash-cam video from the Lake Mary PD (still no joy on the iPad video, though):

    I can be very humble when I know the other guy is packing heat

    • wordsalad2009
      September 11, 2013 at 9:38 AM

      michaeljosephhomes, I remember reading that article sometime in the last year and a half. If nothing else, it illustrates the ‘inflated’ nature of the review process.

  26. wordsalad2009
    September 11, 2013 at 9:25 AM

    Here’s the latest installment from O’Connor’s blog:

    As the Worm Turns

  27. wordsalad2009
    September 11, 2013 at 1:08 PM

    amsterdam1234 :
    The only officer who mentions an unauthorized person at the crime scene was Santiago. According to his narrative in the police report, the person was a white male not. Later when he was questioned by FDLE, he changed it to oriental.

    Thanks, amsterdam. Sounds to me like it could have been Manalo.

  28. wordsalad2009
    September 11, 2013 at 1:26 PM

    This doesn’t bode well. The cops are now saying that they’re having difficulty getting the data off of the iPad because they lack the proper tools, and thus it could be weeks or months:

    Bad Ju Ju, Bad Deja Vu, or What?

  29. wordsalad2009
    September 11, 2013 at 5:11 PM

    Remember Dr. Bao?

    Well, he was fired, and now he’s suing, but that ain’t all. His lawyer is saying in so many words that the prosecution threw the Zimmerman case:

    Them’s fightin’ words

    This could get ‘interesting.’

    • davidboes
      September 11, 2013 at 7:52 PM

      wordsalad, this is interesting coming from Bao’s lawyer Gary: “He wanted a question that would have allowed him to explain to the jury with scientific evidence how there was no way Trayvon Martin could have been on top of George Zimmerman,” Gary said.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 11, 2013 at 8:16 PM

        Yup, very interesting.

        Here’s a twenty minute interview with Gary shortly after GZ’s acquittal:

        WPTV, Sunday, July 21, 2013

  30. wordsalad2009
    September 11, 2013 at 7:36 PM

    The ‘domestic violence’ incident report from the Lake Mary PD:

    Violins, Violins, It’s the Only Thing That Will Make You See Sense

    • wordsalad2009
      September 11, 2013 at 7:56 PM

      On page thirteen of the police report, it says that the surveillance video footage from the house shows (redacted) taking the iPad from (redacted) and breaking it. Hmmm, let’s see, who could that be?…

      • September 11, 2013 at 9:20 PM

        Twas GZ whodunit ! And he apparently dunnit in front of the presenting officers. There’s a photo of the not smashed but “bent” iPad which considering the curvature makes me to think GZ must have bent it over one of his thighs which in its turn makes me think GZ can’t have been that soft and flabby as the gym owner testified.

        • wordsalad2009
          September 11, 2013 at 9:36 PM

          Aye, laddie, thighs of steel! Argh!

          Or at least thighs of something more sturdy than an iPad.

        • September 12, 2013 at 6:08 AM

          Ooooh… stronger than an iPad, sexy!

        • September 11, 2013 at 10:12 PM

          GZ the softy took a fighting position, Taekwondo-style, to keep SZ & her father at bay while he took care of the iPad.
          In this video, he is a very different man then the “yes sir” “no madam” we’ve seen for 18 months. He may have been boiling, trying to keep his Mr Hyde quiet for so long.

          I wonder how long it will take for a Dean to come out and give details about this man. At the moment, all they want is him to get out of their life. But the time will come.

          I’ve no doubt that SZ’s parents, after witnessing from the first row the narcissistic, violent and liar (blame the victim) GZ, have started wondering what really happened with the kid.

          Now SZ looks very complicit in this story. Maybe she’s on the submissive side of the spectrum. I mean, I was really surprised by her comment about how GZ courted her and how she was not particularly interested (that’s not the surprising part) but just gave it a try. But again, like her husband, she lied so many times, it’s hard to know for sure.

          Finally, given the type of girls GZ is attracted to, SZ looks like an outlier. Maybe he was more attracted to the Dean’s money, than the the Dean’s Daughter.

        • September 12, 2013 at 6:13 AM

          I confess I haven’t watched any of the video reporting just read a few bits and pieces and listening to SZ’s police call but with what you say about “Yes sirr, no sirr, three bags full sirr” turnaround I must because I just wouldn’t want to miss that.

  31. wordsalad2009
    September 11, 2013 at 9:48 PM

    gbrbsbblogs :
    Twas GZ whodunit ! And he apparently dunnit in front of the presenting officers. There’s a photo of the not smashed but “bent” iPad which considering the curvature makes me to think GZ must have bent it over one of his thighs which in its turn makes me think GZ can’t have been that soft and flabby as the gym owner testified.

    Yah, seriously, it’s all grist for the mill. I’m kinda hoping lawyer Gary might take the ball and run with it. SZ’s stories about GZ’s temper, etc. might be dismissed as those of a disgruntled ex, but there’s still a lot of unexplained loose ends in the homicide case.

  32. wordsalad2009
    September 11, 2013 at 9:56 PM

    Lawyer Kelly Sims spake thus:

    CNN Piece

    “The only thing Shellie wants out of the end of this relationship is for it to end in a whimper and not with a bang.”

    • September 11, 2013 at 10:18 PM

      That press conf was rather useless. It sounded like it was targeted at GZ: Divorce & don’t shoot.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 11, 2013 at 10:35 PM

        Oh sure, Sims was playing oily PR man, no small part of any lawyer’s job, especially a divorce lawyer.

        It only really bothered me when O’Mara and West did it, because, well, they were defending somebody who’d killed.

  33. wordsalad2009
    September 11, 2013 at 10:31 PM

    @ tchoupi, Did you see the text messages between SZ and GZ that day before she arrived? One of them from her was “I’m really sorry” (presumably apologizing for needing to visit the house again to retrieve more belongings).

    You can never be sorry enough for someone like that.

    Yeah, maybe GZ thought he’d hit the jackpot with SZ, because of her parent’s real estate holdings.

    Although, before they moved to the Retreat, they were actually staying in a place in which his parents appear to have had some kind of stake:

    MJ PDF, Page 16 of 47

    • September 12, 2013 at 12:17 AM

      Yeah, I saw it.
      Could you help me with your reference to page 16 of GZ’s 911 calls log? I don’t see what you’re pointing to.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 12, 2013 at 11:53 AM

        Sorry, that was probably a useless observation on my part. It looks like GZ and SZ were living in an apartment at the time, and Papa Z had a key to it:

        The Happy, Pink Apartments

        That’s probably only prudent to give a key to someone you ‘trust’ for emergencies.

        However, whoever released all those police reports was careless enough not to redact Papa Z’s phone number. Oops.

  34. September 11, 2013 at 11:15 PM

    Page 8 of the offense report gives the name of the mysterious blonde: Samantha Schelbe.
    She also stated that there were gunS in the truck.

    I’m still amazed by the very poor work Journalists do… The information about the girl and the gun(s) is in the report made public.

    • wordsalad2009
      September 11, 2013 at 11:38 PM

      Ooo, good catch. The journos missed it, but so did I.

      Page 8 also goes into more detail about the attempted destruction of the iPad. *Somebody* wasn’t satisfied with just bending it, they pried it open with a knife: they wanted to go after the components. *Somebody* didn’t want the data to be readable.

      • September 12, 2013 at 12:08 AM

        The offense report is the best source of information we have so far. It helps understanding what we see in the security video.

        It also confirms what I wrote above about the Deans having a taste of GZ’s blame the victim strategy. I really hope that it was an real eye opening moment that will make them speak in a near future.

        The black guy you see in the video was working for Daddy Dean helping him to move items.
        He confirmed seeing George punching David Dean.
        He also stated hearing SZ shouting “Don’t shoot my father” (SZ was locked outside when the confrontation started between David & George. This is when she shouted at GZ). This is revealing to me as it shows that she perfectly envision the possibility of GZ shooting someone. She fears him.
        He as other witnesses, the black guy states that GZ indeed said “Come towards me! You are threatening me.” aggressively reaching for his gun (that he did not see). This is roughly what SZ said in her 911.

      • September 12, 2013 at 10:05 AM

        Msnbc didnt miss the name of the woman last night. If almost feel sorry or her being “outed” if it weren’t for her choice of company. I doubt she’s there as a bodyguard- although she may be “hired,” if you catch my drift, although I actually doubt that.

  35. September 12, 2013 at 12:22 AM

    Amsterdam,

    A few month back, when GZ’s call records went public, you identified a person, IIRC a lady, he called on the evening of Feb 26th soon before confronting TM.

    I was wondering if by any chance that person is Samantha Schelbe or Veronica Zuazo?

    • amsterdam1234
      September 12, 2013 at 3:59 AM

      Tchoupi,
      No it wasn’t. I can find the address, but not the name. It was the (407) 221 phone number. If you still have the last 4 digits of that phonenumber, I can find her again.

      • September 12, 2013 at 9:46 AM

        I don’t recall but what I have in my list is:
        407-221-2257 (Sanford), &
        407-756-9916 (Winter Park)

        • September 12, 2013 at 10:01 AM

          Might I be so bold as to suggest calling these numbers to see who answers? A clever detective would use a ploy like “hey I’m at a Starbucks in Sandord and I found a smartphone that someone lost – I see they called you recently. Do You recognize any of these numbers, etc? The phone died and I don’t have a way to charge it but I’m hoping to return it. “.

        • wassointeresting
          September 12, 2013 at 10:29 AM

          Please don’t, it’s awful enough that those numbers are published, but imagine if you were on the receiving end of that call, not really knowing who’s on the other end.

        • unitron
          September 12, 2013 at 11:41 AM

          The phone died but just before it did you managed to find and copy down their number?

          And they won’t find that just a tad suspicious sounding?

        • September 12, 2013 at 10:21 AM

          Willi, impersonating is actually a terrible idea…

        • September 12, 2013 at 10:53 AM

          You folks are probably right. I’m way to shy anyway to call someone like that but I’m as curious as heck as to who GZ was speaking with.

        • amsterdam1234
          September 12, 2013 at 12:26 PM

          It is the first number.
          So I was upset and I cleaned up my place. I can’t find my notes.
          I tracked the phone to a woman who lived on 206 kelly cir, sanford. First name begins with an S last name with a T. When I checked last time a business was also located to that address. The woman was married to owner of the business. The guy’s name was in the business name, that is how I found the name. I also found the woman was registered as a democrat, and she was I believe, in her forties.
          The business is no longer registered to the address and it appears the house was sold in July. The phonenumber is now registered to someone living in Lake Mary.
          I am sorry, that is all I remember for now.

  36. September 12, 2013 at 9:52 AM

    Keep in mind there were two 911 calls- we’ve only heard the second one where it’s clear it’s a call back after SZ’s phone battery may have died.

    Also judging from the house CCTV video GZ may have attacked the interior components of the iPad with a knife but he doesn’t have a firm surface to stab against and it’s unclear if he could tell the CPU from the flash memory lpad hard drive” or not.

    As others have pointed out, attacking a working communication or recording device is likely what happened to TM a well- recall the BUMP racheal Jeantel described hearings shortly before the cell phone which was found on the ground – black side up so as to be hard to find in the dark – died.

    Also the CCTV video seems to show GZ putting his shooting hand to his armpit and taking a marksman’a stance when pouting with his other at a male figure as the iPad is in his possession. This could be the verbal threat to “come closer” that SZ reporters to 911.

    The 64 dollar question becomes “what was recorded on the iPad?” I’ll speculate it was SZ’s father getting punched. I’m not sure what else it might be but if we are open minded perhaps after that SZ did hit GZ with the iPad either as he came to confiscate it or she hit him i realization for striking her father.

    I have fair to good hopes that the flash chip is salvageable. What it shows may or may not be of any interest to a prosecutor.

    I’ll note here that the verbal threat to SZ and / or the father could be said to mirror the invented “you’re going to die tonight” quotation. IMO if anyone issued a death threat the night of the killing it would have been the one with the capability of making good on said threat and knowledge of the concealed handgun.

    • wordsalad2009
      September 12, 2013 at 10:44 AM

      I tend to think that none of them (GZ, SZ, or DBD) are sufficiently familiar with the guts of an iPad to target the video data storage.

      In reading around the Net, I saw some skepticism about DBD’s nose injury, but when I look at the picture of his face on O’Connor’s blog, I see an abrasion on the bridge of his nose.

      Does it look like a severe injury? No, but then GZ’s injuries on February 26, 2012 weren’t impressive-looking, either, were they? GZ supporters can’t have it both ways. };-)

      Did GZ punch DBD? Time (and hopefully video) will tell.

      • September 12, 2013 at 11:05 AM

        Concerning the iPad.

        GZ did not just try to stop the device from working. There’s a stop button for that.

        GZ did not just try to prevent from further recordings. There is a removable battery for that.

        GZ wanted to destroy the device itself. He took a knife to open the shell and damage the circuitry inside.

        On my side, I have no doubt as of why he had to do this. He knew that what was in the iPad was not helping him.

        • wordsalad2009
          September 12, 2013 at 11:21 AM

          Oh, agree, I just don’t think he had any clear idea of what component(s) to go after. Anybody who doesn’t routinely perform hardware maintenance/installation on stuff like that wouldn’t (I myself am so iPad-illiterate that I had to take a look at Google Images).

          Going after an iPad with a knife (allegedly) would be the act of an angry, desperate person.

      • September 12, 2013 at 11:28 AM

        Concerning the daddy Dean’s nose,

        I can’t help repeating one of my favorite quotes:”Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes”.

        ###

        From what I read in the Offense Report, besides the Dean and his helper, there is no witness of the punch. Shellie was outside near the front door when it happened. So, don’t count on the iPad for that part of the story.

        • wordsalad2009
          September 12, 2013 at 11:35 AM

          Ah yes, so very ironic. };-)

          That’s bad news about video and the alleged punch.

  37. wordsalad2009
    September 12, 2013 at 10:30 AM

    tchoupicaillou :
    Willi, impersonating is actually a terrible idea…

    Yup, I’d say that would be crossing a line that none of us should want to cross.

    • September 12, 2013 at 10:58 AM

      Meanwhile the NSA is storing every keystroke here… but yeah, two wrongs don’t make a right, I agree.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 12, 2013 at 11:09 AM

        Yup, point taken about the NSA. When I say “none of us,” I’d expand that to mean We the People.

      • davidboes
        September 14, 2013 at 7:13 AM

        willisnewton, while it is a line I wouldn’t want to cross for the mentioned purpose, I thought the idea and ruse you invented was brilliant.

  38. September 12, 2013 at 12:04 PM

    Something minor but interesting I did not noticed before in the cctv.

    At the very beginning, GZ arrives and goes straight to the truck and takes picture.
    Daddy Dean’s helper, the black guy, is pacing by the house’s front door. Daddy Dean gets out. Then comes SZ. The helper is still by the front door. Then everybody come back in. Daddy Dean goes in thru the front door. GZ & then SZ follow him.

    This is where the thing gets weird. GZ walks by the helper and shoots pictures of the helper right in his face.
    Honestly, I would have been offended.

  39. wordsalad2009
    September 12, 2013 at 12:05 PM

    unitron :
    The phone died but just before it did you managed to find and copy down their number?
    And they won’t find that just a tad suspicious sounding?

    unitron, Speaking strictly for myself, I’m skeptical about the entire combined clan, but if I had to single out one member for extreme skepticism, it would be the killer.

    • unitron
      September 12, 2013 at 12:43 PM

      Why would George call that number and claim to be someone at Starbucks who found a phone that had dialed that number?

      He already knows whose number it is.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 12, 2013 at 5:01 PM

        OK, I think I catch your drift now. Your concern was about someone in this group attempting an impersonation ruse, not so much from an ethics standpoint, but one of plausibility.

        • unitron
          September 12, 2013 at 7:26 PM

          I was pointing out what I considered to be a weak point in that particular bit of hypothetical social engineering.

  40. September 12, 2013 at 12:17 PM

    unitron :
    The phone died but just before it did you managed to find and copy down their number?
    And they won’t find that just a tad suspicious sounding?

    Unitron,

    I’m not sure about the point you’re trying to make here. So, correct me if I got that wong.

    The phone # I managed to find and copy were released a few month back well before this week’s events.
    They were in GZ’s phone records on the night of Feb 26th, 2012. The man obviously spent his day texting and phoning. The phone # were not edited out. The #s given are from there.

    • unitron
      September 12, 2013 at 12:47 PM

      The point I’m making is that if Willis or whoever calls the number and says they found a cell phone that had called that number, but now the cell phone battery was dead, it’s going to seem a little odd to whoever they called that they managed to get that number before it died, but not the number of the cell phone itself or any other info on the owner.

      • September 12, 2013 at 12:56 PM

        Apparently I had lost track of the discussion. Thanks

  41. September 12, 2013 at 12:33 PM

    amsterdam1234 :
    It is the first number.
    So I was upset and I cleaned up my place. I can’t find my notes.
    I tracked the phone to a woman who lived on 206 kelly cir, sanford. First name begins with an S last name with a T. When I checked last time a business was also located to that address. The woman was married to owner of the business. The guy’s name was in the business name, that is how I found the name. I also found the woman was registered as a democrat, and she was I believe, in her forties.
    The business is no longer registered to the address and it appears the house was sold in July. The phonenumber is now registered to someone living in Lake Mary.
    I am sorry, that is all I remember for now.

    Thanks Amsterdam. This is more than enough. That was just something I wanted to check.

    • amsterdam1234
      September 12, 2013 at 1:24 PM

      I found the name and the business name again. If you want it I can give it to you. I forgot if this number appeared previous to the specific txt.

      • September 12, 2013 at 1:50 PM

        No I don’t need to know who that is. You think that she is of no interest to the case and I trust your conclusion.

        • September 12, 2013 at 4:40 PM

          I’m curious what type of business it was….. and yeah I’m nosy. I don’t wish to invade her privacy in a public manner but anyone who communicated w GZ on the day he murdered someone is a “person of interest” to a decent investigation and should have been contacted by the SPD and later the FDLE.

        • amsterdam1234
          September 12, 2013 at 5:03 PM

          @willis
          Just Google the address + computer. You will find the business.

  42. wordsalad2009
    September 12, 2013 at 5:10 PM

    willisnewton :
    I’m curious what type of business it was….. and yeah I’m nosy. I don’t wish to invade her privacy in a public manner but anyone who communicated w GZ on the day he murdered someone is a “person of interest” to a decent investigation and should have been contacted by the SPD and later the FDLE.

    I agree that she should have been contacted by the authorities during a decent investigation. She may be (and probably is) innocent of any wrong doing in the homicide case, but she may have been an unwitting contributor to a bad mood that spiraled out of control.

  43. September 12, 2013 at 8:17 PM

    That one is interesting. It is an email chain with Chief Bracknell from Lake Mary reported in ThinkProgress.

    Bracknell answers point by point to a question. The point #16 is eye catching.

    Here it is:

  44. wordsalad2009
    September 12, 2013 at 9:03 PM

    Man, that whole email exchange is interesting.

    I don’t know who Santiago Rodriguez is, but he seems to be amongst those who think SZ is getting a fairly whopping $4,300 a month (that seems unlikely to me).

    Bracknell is the one who coined the “This guy is killing me,” phrase, isn’t he? 🙂

    Colin Morgan being copied on the exchange would seem to clinch him as being part of LMPD.

    That last is interesting mostly because some news outlets incorrectly identified him as SZ’s father, most notably ABC (Gutman and Tienabeso share a byline on this one):

    Them Boys is Slippin’

    • September 13, 2013 at 11:16 AM

      It looks to me like SZ & GZ attorneys keep an eye on their real goal which is the money.

      They, MoM in particular, have to old those two guys until after the nbc law suit is over so the money they win will allow them to pay for all their expenses & make big margins.
      Once it’s all over and the money is in, the Zs will be free to kill each other and others.

      This is the essence of MoM’s advise to George: “Pay me.”.
      In effect, for George to pay him (2 full time lawyers for a year + the team + experts + expenses), he must be rich man. The only possible way George, who could not make money for himself over the past 10 years, to get rich in a short time is to win big against NBC. For that to happen, GZ must keep a low profile.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 13, 2013 at 12:25 PM

        Yup, it’s not pretty, but it’s pragmatic: “Keep your head down until the NBC suit is over.”

        I do wonder what the chances are of them winning against NBC.

        • September 13, 2013 at 2:09 PM

          IANAL, and certainly not in Florida, but based on what i know about broadcast news (which is a fair amount), if NBC were to admit any wrongdoing here (even if only by settling without an ‘official’ admission of blame) that would be the end of TV journalism as we know it. Sound-bites must be edited for brevity, and the goal is always to get the gist of what was important. This is necessarily a somewhat subjective process, and the results can not and should not be compared to any kind of courtroom presentation of ‘fact’. Besides, GZ said “fucking coons” and no matter who says he said “punks”, NBC could certainly argue that their people heard “coons” and were giving him a break by NOT including that bit in their report.

          What I mean is, if TV news shows were constrained from editing things down, required to include all the sort of context that would have clarified the exact nature of GZ’s “and he’s black utterance,” it would just be impossible to use actualities in news packages, as the clips would be too long, and ANY editing down would open the station or network to lawsuits.

          I would expect NBC to move for a summary dismissal, and for that motion to be granted. And, as i’ve said before, if GZ’s suit should by some chance proceed to trial, I would expect amicus briefs backing NBC to be filed by every broadcast network (including FOX), and every professional journalism/broadcast association. That is, I would expect GZ to be facing not just NBC, but a united front of The Media (mainstream and otherwise), represented by the best and most expensive legal team giant corporations can buy.

          In short, though I could be wrong of course, I put the odds of GZ getting as much as a dime from NBC at 0%.

      • September 17, 2013 at 3:37 PM

        The trouble with the NBC suit is, his claim is that he has been irreparably harmed, something belied by his acquittal. I don’t see him having much of a claim of being harmed. Other than in some highly technical theoretical fashion. I don’t believe that kind of hurt pays very well.

        • wordsalad2009
          September 19, 2013 at 12:12 AM

          Good point.

        • September 23, 2013 at 9:35 AM

          I just read that he’s gone into hiding again. His family is in touch with him, but they say they don’t know where he is.

  45. wordsalad2009
    September 12, 2013 at 9:26 PM

    unitron :
    I was pointing out what I considered to be a weak point in that particular bit of hypothetical social engineering.

    Sure. Of course, there’s no guarantee that the person on the other end of the call would be alert enough to catch the discrepancies. They wouldn’t necessarily have to be stupid, just busy and distracted.

    My concern with the hypothetical social engineering (such a nice term for such nasty behavior, isn’t it?) was that someone involved with this blog might succumb to the temptation.

    At any rate, I completely misunderstood what you were driving at with your original comment.

  46. September 13, 2013 at 8:29 AM

    follow

  47. wordsalad2009
    September 13, 2013 at 9:48 AM

    This USATODAY piece makes it sound like the physical altercation took place in the garage, so we probably won’t get any ‘impartial’ information unless and until they can retrieve the data from the damaged iPad:

    GZ Sez, SZ Sez, and Mutilated iPad is Silent

    If GZ was attacking SZ’s father DBD, I can see her hitting him with the closest thing to hand (the iPad), but GZ’s excuse about smashing the iPad to stop the attack sounds pretty weak.

    Let’s see: your wife is smacking you with an iPad, so your response is to take it away from her, bend it over your knee, and then pry it open with a pocket knife to gouge internal components. Hmmm…

  48. wordsalad2009
    September 13, 2013 at 10:51 AM

    The downside of my favored way of taking in information, reading (random access) is that I not infrequently miss things. Did anyone else catch this about what Dr. Bao is saying?:

    Holy Ballistics, Batman!

    Bao appears to be saying that it was “unfeasible” for TM to have been on top of GZ at the time of the gunshot because “the bullet entered Martin’s back.”

    • amsterdam1234
      September 13, 2013 at 11:02 AM

      That can’t be right. There was no entry wound or exit wound on his back, according to the autopsy report. No holes on the back of the shirts either.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 13, 2013 at 11:15 AM

        amsterdam, I know. Right after I posted that, I thought about it, and realized it was unlikely.

        Over and above what you said, GZ used a hollow point bullet, so even if he had shot TM in the back, then there probably wouldn’t have been a exit wound in the front, and we all saw the picture of the small, ‘neat’ wound in the chest.

        I’ve tried to find a mainstream news piece to corroborate the “bullet entered Martin”s back” story to no avail thus far.

        I don’t know if the alternet writer was deliberately spreading misinformation.

        I’m sorry to have given them an ‘assist’ if they were. 😦

        • amsterdam1234
          September 13, 2013 at 11:33 AM

          Maybe he was saying Trayvon was on his back when the bullet entered his body. Strange.

    • September 13, 2013 at 11:36 AM

      Another example of bad journalism or Dr. Bao really blew a fuse.

      I don’t believe Dr. Bao was fired for any other reason but his handling of TM’s autopsy and possibly other autopsies.

      There was a mistake made concerning the saeling of TM’s clothes which was done in plastic bags rather than paper.
      Unless the chain of custody was broken, the mistake has to come from Dr. Bao’s team. It was under his responsibility. As he stated himself, the one who did that mistake must be fired.

      I believe that this mistake is one of the reasons, if not the reason, for Dr. Bao loosing it during trial.

      I understood that it was not the 1st time that he testified as an expert. So, he must know how it works.
      The he_is_Chinese_so_his_ways_are_different is BS and borderline racist. I live and work with many Asian people and they are of all temper as Europeans & Africans are.
      The pressure was high in this trial. Adding that found mistake, he lost it. He tried to over do his work to show his expertise by studying more. He learned stuff that made him realize that his report can be attacked by the defense adding to the impression that he is not a good expert. He then spent all his time trying to explain that his opinion can change with new fact and screwed it up.

      Errare humanum est

      • wordsalad2009
        September 13, 2013 at 12:34 PM

        That’s an interesting take on Dr. Bao. Yes, it could have been painfully embarrassing to have the mistake of mishandled evidence shoved under his nose.

      • amsterdam1234
        September 13, 2013 at 1:16 PM

        I think everyone involved didn’t care about the dead black kid until it blew up in their faces. I think Bao and his team messed up. I didn’t believe his claim he didn’t remember doing the autopsy. The case was all over the media within weeks, there was no time to forget.

        I don’t believe Chinese people are genetically predisposed to behave differently, but don’t underestimate the cultural differences. My grandfather was Chinese. We western or ” modern ” kids would rant about the stupidity of ” the loss of face” stuff, but somehow some of it is culturally imbedded in me. The compound problems at Fukshima, are a good example of what can be the result if people are not only trying to salvage the damage but also are trying to save themselves from loss of face.

        The prosecution should have interviewed Bao for days, getting everything out in the open. We don’t know what he was trying to gloss over. It could’ve been a minor mistake or a big one.

        • wordsalad2009
          September 14, 2013 at 11:44 AM

          amsterdam, I think it’s true that a lot of people involved didn’t care about the dead black kid, but for some of them, particularly law enforcement, it may not be racism, but rather that they’ve become inured to homicide through their work.

          As to Chinese people being genetically predisposed to behave differently, I remember reading some years back about a study that suggested far-east asian babies were less likely to fuss and cry. Well, that could be cultural, too, nurture as opposed to nature.

          To me, it’s a bit like birth order theory which suggests that the first-born are more likely to be anxious and fretful. Why?

          Well, one reason could be that they have no family model for child behavior. Another is that first-time parents are more likely to be anxious and fretful.

          Yes, the prosecution didn’t handle Bao properly, but throw that on the pile of things the prosecution didn’t do right.

    • September 17, 2013 at 3:21 PM

      I don’t think Dr. Bao is stupid, nor do I think he’s talking about magic. I think his poor command of the language is what this “shorthand” is fashioned around.

      I could be wrong, but what I think he was trying to say was that, while in the chest cavity, and after the bullet and it’s fragments had expended all of their energy, they had settled to the back of Trayvon’s chest cavity. Something that could not have happened if Trayvon had been on top.

      My guess is he’d found the bullet and/or it’s fragments laying inside the back of the chest cavity, on top of uninjured tissue. But that’s just my guess. We’ll have to wait and see what the actual truth is.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 19, 2013 at 12:10 AM

        Lonnie,

        You could be right, but we’ll just have to wait and see.

        In the meantime, the alternet piece I linked a few days back now has a semi-retraction/caveat at the end of it:

        Editor’s Note: An earlier version of this story said that Dr. Bao claimed Martin had been shot from the back. That cannot be verified at this time. Reports indicate that he did however say that examiniation of the wound revealed that Martin could not have been on top of Zimmerman at the shooting, and the physical evidence indicated that Martin could not have been the aggressor.

        • September 23, 2013 at 9:34 AM

          Indeed, it is something of a tragedy of sorts that we’ll have to wait to hear what he has to say. But I barf each time I have to read the prosecution saying they did everything they could to secure a conviction. Because doing “everything they could” should certainly have included, at the very least, making the claim that gz was engaged in commission of a criminal act when he frightened Trayvon by following him.

          There was never any good reason for him to have even revealed his presence to Trayvon at all! Therefore, Trayvon should have remained, at all times, totally unaware of gz’s presence. That is something that gz could very easily have achieved, so his being discovered by the teen, to be following him, is a terrible and unlawful provocation.

          The prosecution made nothing at all of Trayvon’s rights not to be frighted out of his wits,
          by any person who had not witnessed him committing any crime. gz had witnessed no crime and had no reason to reveal his presence, so that is something he willfully did.

  49. wordsalad2009
    September 13, 2013 at 11:51 AM

    amsterdam1234 :
    Maybe he was saying Trayvon was on his back when the bullet entered his body. Strange.

    amsterdam, I’d like to believe that the alternet writer was just trying to say that, but garbled it.

    • amsterdam1234
      September 13, 2013 at 1:17 PM

      We Will jut have to wait. I suspect we will hear more from Bao.

    • davidboes
      September 14, 2013 at 8:35 AM

      The notion put forth that Dr. Bao claimed that Trayvon was shot in the back is reckless non-journalism. Attorney Gary did assert what you would like to believe.

      “He wanted a question that would have allowed him to explain to the jury with scientific evidence how there was no way Trayvon Martin could have been on top of George Zimmerman,” – Willie Gary

      He further stated that his client was prepared to offer proof that Martin was not the aggressor.

  50. unitron
    September 13, 2013 at 12:40 PM

    wordsalad2009 :
    The downside of my favored way of taking in information, reading (random access) is that I not infrequently miss things. Did anyone else catch this about what Dr. Bao is saying?:
    Holy Ballistics, Batman!
    Bao appears to be saying that it was “unfeasible” for TM to have been on top of GZ at the time of the gunshot because “the bullet entered Martin’s back.”

    If it entered his back, it entered from the front.

  51. unitron
    September 13, 2013 at 1:50 PM

    amsterdam1234 :
    We Will jut have to wait. I suspect we will hear more from Bao.

    I suspect the good doctor will be the gift that keeps on giving for some time to come.

    There’s lots of crazy left in this case, probably years’ worth.

    • wassointeresting
      September 13, 2013 at 2:27 PM

      “There’s lots of crazy left in this case”

      LOL and ROTFLMAO (and whatever other acronym applies). Couldn’t agree more.

  52. unitron
    September 13, 2013 at 1:51 PM

    unitron :

    amsterdam1234 :
    We Will jut have to wait. I suspect we will hear more from Bao.

    I suspect the good doctor will be the gift that keeps on giving for some time to come.
    There’s lots of crazy left in this case, probably years’ worth.

    My comment should not be taken as a denigration of Dr. Bao.

    My opinion of him is actually probably a lot more favorable than most on either side of this case.

  53. wordsalad2009
    September 13, 2013 at 2:06 PM

    unitron :

    amsterdam1234 :
    We Will jut have to wait. I suspect we will hear more from Bao.

    I suspect the good doctor will be the gift that keeps on giving for some time to come.
    There’s lots of crazy left in this case, probably years’ worth.

    I suspect that we’ll hear more from Dr. Bao if only because his lawyer seems to be pretty high-powered.

    As to Bao being “the gift that keeps giving,” somehow I see that metaphor as being better suited to GZ.

    Both directly and indirectly, GZ causes all kinds of havoc.

    I have to wonder if the Lake Mary Chief of Police won’t become another socio-political casualty because of his indiscreet remarks, both to the press and in email. Not that I don’t agree with him overall, but dude, protect yourself.

    • unitron
      September 13, 2013 at 3:19 PM

      Anyone in a position that puts them in the public eye or causes them to be of interest to reporters should have something that constantly keeps in front of their eyes, in very large letters, the following:

      “Think before you speak.

      And then shut up anyway.”

      • wordsalad2009
        September 14, 2013 at 12:58 PM

        Anyone making a remark outside of the privacy of their own home is vulnerable that way (and even that environment seems to be in jeopardy these days).

        I think Bracknell was doing his job by responding to Rodriguez’ email, but he probably would have done better by sticking to the facts (e.g., “We couldn’t search GZ’s truck because we needed a warrant to do that”), and not aired his personal opinions in something subject to Florida’s (in)famous ‘sunshine’ laws.

  54. wordsalad2009
    September 13, 2013 at 3:16 PM

    British tabloid Daily Mail has an article about some of the other people present at the scene of the alleged domestic violence:

    Long Cool Woman in a Black Dress

    • September 14, 2013 at 4:44 AM

      On his MySpace (2nd discovery pg 225) GZ refers to a Wesley as one of his FL shoutouts. I could not find any Samantha though.

      SZ claim of GZ’s infidelity has some history. I mean, she is not alone making it.
      The old myspace account is the one from 2005 where he lists himself as single while he was engaged with Veronica Zuazo. He does not make any reference to her, in there.
      It is in that same discovery(pg 141) that you’ll find V. Zuazo statements to FDLE about her finding that GZ was advertising himself as single in dating a website, which prompted the last incident with him that made her quit.
      After they split, GZ kept on trying getting back with her which led to the incident that in turn led to the retraining order. Anyhow, according to V Zuazo, he contacted her again years after he was married and they had amicable meetings in 2010 & 2011 without SZ presence.

      GZ has a new myspace page (only to be king again): https://myspace.com/onlytobekingagain/connections/out

      • wordsalad2009
        September 14, 2013 at 10:29 AM

        I just can’t figure out what these women find attractive about GZ, but then I have to remind myself that psychologists say manipulative sociopaths are especially adept at deceiving the opposite sex.

      • September 14, 2013 at 4:16 PM

        @Tchoupi

        GZ has a new myspace page (only to be king again): https://myspace.com/onlytobekingagain/connections/out

        Don’t know whether to exclaim “WOW!!!” or “WTF!” with such an impressive wall of “soliciting” females! Are we sure “Only to be King Again” is really GZ’s page because same as wordsalad, I just can’t figure out what these women find attractive about GZ… well unless it’s the juicy cheque they reckon, hope, expect and desperately pray he will get from NBC.

        • September 14, 2013 at 5:10 PM

          I’m fairly sure this is GZ’s. The account name is the same (Onlytobekingagain). The front picture is the same. Many of the connected people have the same picture.

          I don’t know how to dig deeper as I’m not social media savvy.

        • September 15, 2013 at 4:25 AM

          Join the club as I’m not social social media savvy either. I don’t doubt the conclusion just find it more than curious and well… what can I say more than it takes all sorts and that I just can’t fathom the all sorts!

    • davidboes
      September 14, 2013 at 7:44 AM

      Bang a gong! This woman’s presence seems like it had a two fold purpose, one was to provide additional witnesses to the apprehension of hostility, and the other typical breakup nonsense to bring along the attractive woman to infuriate his wife. He seems to have a knack for provoking conflict.

  55. September 13, 2013 at 10:11 PM

    whonoze :

    In short, though I could be wrong of course, I put the odds of GZ getting as much as a dime from NBC at 0%.

    I hope you’re right. The issue I see though, is that NBC fired its employee because of that exact “scandal”. To me, it’s not much different than an admission of mistake within NBC.

  56. wordsalad2009
    September 14, 2013 at 12:19 AM

    whonoze :
    IANAL, and certainly not in Florida, but based on what i know about broadcast news (which is a fair amount), if NBC were to admit any wrongdoing here (even if only by settling without an ‘official’ admission of blame) that would be the end of TV journalism as we know it. Sound-bites must be edited for brevity, and the goal is always to get the gist of what was important. This is necessarily a somewhat subjective process, and the results can not and should not be compared to any kind of courtroom presentation of ‘fact’. Besides, GZ said “fucking coons” and no matter who says he said “punks”, NBC could certainly argue that their people heard “coons” and were giving him a break by NOT including that bit in their report.

    I’m kinda with tchoupi in his concern about NBC’s firing of an employee looking like an admission of guilt. Then again, the employee fired was a producer, and my impression of those is a bit like sports team coaches: easy come, easy go.

    Good point about NBC possibly arguing that they gave GZ a break about the “f*cking *oons” business, though.

    I wondered exactly who it was that started the “f*cking punks” meme, and when I went back to the interviews, I found out that it was GZ himself.

    It seemed to me like Serino might have been subtly offering GZ a way out of a lot of potential trouble by telling him TM wasn’t a goon (and indeed in one of his write-ups explained what a goon was), but GZ didn’t bite for whatever reason, and told Serino that he’d said “punks.”

    Later when GZ was on Hannity in July 2012, he reaffirmed that he’d said “punks,” and said that when the police played his NEN call for him, it was “clear as day.”

    *eyeroll* Abe Simpson with his ear trumpet could tell GZ didn’t say “punks.”

    Why anyone in authority ever chopped off on that is just another excellent question.

  57. wordsalad2009
    September 14, 2013 at 1:07 PM

    wordsalad2009 :
    I think Bracknell was doing his job by responding to Rodriguez’ email…

    Well, on second thought, Bracknell might have been stepping in and doing Zach Hudson’s job (PR), and Hudson may have later taken him aside and told him, “With all due respect, please STFU.”

  58. wordsalad2009
    September 14, 2013 at 5:41 PM

    A USATODAY article on Angela Corey:

    BDLR Met Corey at a Yard Sale(!)

    • unitron
      September 14, 2013 at 7:05 PM

      “De la Rionda, who works closely with Corey, and McClain, who met Corey at a yard sale, both say she is a frugal woman who takes care of those around her.”

      (yeah, well I think we know how she took care of herself and Bernie)

      Reads to me like the person she met at the yard sale was “…Beverly McClain, who runs Families of Slain Children, a non-profit based in Jacksonville.”

      Perhaps you were confused by the nowadays all too rare correct use of commas.

  59. wordsalad2009
    September 14, 2013 at 7:50 PM

    unitron :
    Perhaps you were confused by the nowadays all too rare correct use of commas.

    Nope, just skimming too carelessly, and not for the first time.

    Actually, I think I might also have been a bit distracted by the use of the word “frugal” as well, because that was a word Mark Osterman used to describe his good buddy GZ.

    I remember wondering how any (middle class or lower) person who’s blown their way through as much money as GZ has in the last couple of years (and I’m not just counting the expenditures from the so-called defense fund) could be described as frugal.

  60. wordsalad2009
    September 14, 2013 at 7:52 PM

    wordsalad2009 :

    unitron :
    Actually, I think I might also have been a bit distracted by the use of the word “frugal” as well,

    Oops, “also” and “as well” in the same sentence. I’m on a roll, and it isn’t a good one.

  61. wordsalad2009
    September 15, 2013 at 6:30 PM

    Bill Maher compares the U.S. to GZ:

    Opposing Views

    “Forget the Syria debate,” he said. “We need to have a debate about why we’re always debating about whether to bomb someone. Because we’re starting to look not so much like the world’s policeman, but more like George Zimmerman. Itching to use force and then pretending it’s because we had no choice.”

    Ouch.

  62. wordsalad2009
    September 16, 2013 at 8:34 PM

    Hey all,

    I don’t know about you, but I keep seeing the same, basic misconceptions about the case on the Net, and they exasperate me.

    I know there’s a thread for GZ’s falsehoods, etc., but perhaps we should have a concise list of FAQs to dispel some of the most common misconceptions that the general public seems to have, along with links (to official sources wherever possible), e.g.:

    Q: Didn’t the police tell Zimmerman to stay in his vehicle?

    A: After the Seminole County dispatcher heard sounds suggesting that Zimmerman had left his vehicle, he asked Zimmerman if he was following the “suspicious” person. When Zimmerman replied in the affirmative, the dispatcher advised him that, “Okay, we don’t need you to do that.”

    (Links to NEN call and transcript)

    Q: Didn’t Martin sneak up behind Zimmerman and attack him?

    A: In any of his various versions of events, Zimmerman never said that Martin sneaked up behind him.

    (Links to Zimmerman’s various versions)

    There were no eyewitnesses to the start of the confontation, and only one earwitness, Rachel Jeantel.

    Jeantel said that Martin asked Zimmerman, “Why are you following me?” and Zimmerman’s response was, “What are you doing around here?”

    (Link to Jeantel’s testimony)

    Q: Wasn’t Martin well over 6 feet tall and 200 pounds?

    A: At autopsy, Martin’s height and weight were measured and recorded as 71 inches (5’11”), 158 pounds.

    (Link to Martin’s autopsy report)

    Q: Wasn’t Zimmerman found innocent during the trial?

    A: Zimmerman was found ‘not guilty.’ That’s not the same as ‘innocent.’ It means that the jury didn’t find the evidence presented to prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

    (Link to a credible legal source)

    • wordsalad2009
      September 16, 2013 at 9:12 PM

      Man, I can’t believe that I forgot one of my all-time ‘favorites’:

      Q: Wasn’t Zimmerman off-duty from Neighborhood Watch that night?

      A: There is no on-duty/off-duty in Neighbohood Watch. Volunteers perform NW functions on an as-needed basis. Further, there is no patrolling in NW.

      There is a related program called Citizens on Patrol. Sanford Police Department volunteer coordinator Wendy Dorival tried to interest Zimmerman in it, but he declined.

      (Links to NW and CoP materials as provided by SPD)

  63. September 16, 2013 at 10:06 PM

    Congress used the DC shooting at the naval base as an excuse today to postpone a hearing on Stand your ground laws.

    I question the logic and I’m curious who was responsible. Maybe it is wise move?

    • wordsalad2009
      September 16, 2013 at 10:24 PM

      I dunno, it apparently was Durbin who announce the postponement, and he was the guy who called it to begin with:

      Roll Call/WGDB

      “The Senate is postponing Tuesday’s scheduled hearing on “stand your ground” laws in the aftermath of Monday’s mass shooting.

      That announcement came late Monday from the office of Senate Majority Whip Richard J.Durbin. The Illinois Democrat had called the hearing before his Judiciary subcommittee.”

      • September 17, 2013 at 11:22 AM

        I suppose Durbin was anticipating that any publicity generated from the hearing would be drowned out by news from the Navy Yard mass shooting. He’s probably right but it bothers me that the connection to gun use by mentally unstable people isn’t being made here, and that idea wouldn’t INCREASE the press attention. But that’s not the way we roll, I guess.

        • wordsalad2009
          September 17, 2013 at 11:33 AM

          Yeah, some of the information coming out about the shooter is pretty disturbing (previous gun incidents, complained about hearing voices, et cetera).

  64. wordsalad2009
    September 17, 2013 at 9:29 AM

    On the subject of self-defense laws in Florida, Senator Chris Smith is trying to turn things around a bit, specifically with regard to Neighborhood Watch:

    WLRN-Miami

    Which, indirectly I suppose, brings me to another good FAQ:

    Q: Was the so-called Stand Your Ground law involved in the Zimmerman trial?

    A: While Zimmerman pleaded self-defense, he never specifically invoked SYG. However, there was SYG verbiage in the jury instructions.

  65. wordsalad2009
    September 17, 2013 at 11:27 AM

    With regard to the damaged iPad: I wonder if the LMPD has handed it off to FDLE? In nosing around on the web, it looks like there are two regional FDLE centers that handle digital forensics, one in Tallahassee, and the other in Tampa (Bay).

    Yeah, I’m jonesin’ for some fresh info. };-)

    I took another look at the official stuff released on the alleged domestic violence incident, and I didn’t notice a ‘connect time.’ The nearest I could get was the time of the dispatcher’s first entry, at 14:09:59. Apparently, one of the people helping SZ noticed around 14:00 that GZ was out front taking pictures.

    Also, judging from one of SZ’s text messages earlier that day, at some point while en route to the LM rental property she was about 20 minutes away. What are the odds that she hadn’t been staying with her parents in Orlando?

    Finally, much as I hate to cut GZ any breaks, he was still staying at the rental property in Lake Mary, so in order for him not to be present while SZ was retrieving her belongings, he needed to leave.

    Of course, that doesn’t explain (or excuse) him showing up after asking her to let him know when she was done (presumably so that he would know when it was OK for him to return). You know, not to mention the rest of his actions.

  66. wordsalad2009
    September 18, 2013 at 6:41 PM

    According to the Sanford Herald, SZ’s damaged iPad is being worked on by the county mounties:

    Lake Mary Police Public Information Officer Zach Hudson said technicians at the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office were working to remove the video from the iPad – which was broken during the incident – and hoped to have the video by Wednesday.

    Of course, the date on the article is September 10, so presumably they were talking about last Wednesday…

    • unitron
      September 18, 2013 at 6:48 PM

      Probably what happened was they found out they’d have to spend some real money on getting the video retrieved by specialists and decided not to spend it, since neither party was pressing charges.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 18, 2013 at 7:56 PM

        You could be right, considering what I see in this piece:

        Click Orlando on 20130916

        “Lake Mary Police Officer Zach Hudson said last week at some point, they have to weigh, ‘is all of this necessary for a possible misdemeanor charge?'”

        Ordinarily, I’d agree, but we’re talking about a guy who’s killed.

    • September 19, 2013 at 9:23 PM

      Maybe Siri is pressing charges. GZ did try to kill her with that knife. Threatening your spouse may only be a misdemeanor in Florida, but assaulting an iOS device with a deadly weapon surely must be a felony. (Or perhaps SZ’s iPad is involved in a conspiracy with Michael Wagner’s iPhone to falsify evidence.??)

  67. wordsalad2009
    September 18, 2013 at 8:01 PM

    And the article quoted in comment #5159 referenced this one:

    Click Orlando on 20130912

    “Officer Zach Hudson tells Local 6 that the iPad that Shellie Zimmerman was recording with when the alleged incident occurred is so damaged that there is only a 5 percent chance police will get it.”

    But this bit is interesting:

    He says LMPD has been working very hard to find a place where they know the workers won’t try and sell the video they extract. They’ve found one in Miami, but now they’re faced with added costs, Hudson said.”

    Why is it that they don’t send it to FDLE in Tallahasse or Tampa (Bay)?

  68. wordsalad2009
    September 18, 2013 at 8:14 PM

    Here’s a more comprehensive collection of the text messages between SZ and GZ in the 24-odd hours leading up to the alleged DV incident:

    Click Orlando PDF

  69. wordsalad2009
    September 20, 2013 at 11:26 AM

    The Orlando Sentinel (on September 18) says that the LMPD has found an agency that will try to salvage the video from the iPad now that the Seminole County IT department says they can’t. LMPD wouldn’t name the “agency,” however:

    No Names, Please

  70. wordsalad2009
    September 20, 2013 at 2:56 PM

    Bay News 9 says that the “Police are now asking for help from up to five agencies — one of them is the Secret Service. Police will not elaborate on who is helping.”

    Well, you know: no elaboration except that weird tidbit about the Treasury squad.

    Bay News 9

  71. wordsalad2009
    September 22, 2013 at 11:16 AM

    Apparently, GZ had disappeared (again):

    TMZ

    It could get ‘interesting’ if the authorities are able to extract the video from the iPad, and based on the content decide to charge GZ (assault, and attempted destruction of evidence thereof).

  72. wordsalad2009
    September 23, 2013 at 10:28 AM

    Lonnie Starr :
    I just read that he’s gone into hiding again. His family is in touch with him, but they say they don’t know where he is.

    Yup, and (once again) probably nobody knows for sure why except GZ.

    There’s speculation that GZ is trying to forestall the inevitable with regard to the divorce. Not so much that he’s trying to delay the divorce itself, but the revelation of all his assets.

    Apparently, they don’t need to find him to serve the divorce papers, they can just publish it in the newspapers, and after a certain amount of time, it’s considered that he’s been ‘served.’

    Then there’s speculation that GZ has disappeared because he’s afraid of what the iPad video might reveal if the experts are able to salvage it. It could result in charges of battery (not to mention attempted destruction of evidence thereof).

  73. wordsalad2009
    September 23, 2013 at 11:11 AM

    Lonnie Starr :
    Indeed, it is something of a tragedy of sorts that we’ll have to wait to hear what he has to say. But I barf each time I have to read the prosecution saying they did everything they could to secure a conviction. Because doing “everything they could” should certainly have included, at the very least, making the claim that gz was engaged in commission of a criminal act when he frightened Trayvon by following him.
    There was never any good reason for him to have even revealed his presence to Trayvon at all! Therefore, Trayvon should have remained, at all times, totally unaware of gz’s presence. That is something that gz could very easily have achieved, so his being discovered by the teen, to be following him, is a terrible and unlawful provocation.
    The prosecution made nothing at all of Trayvon’s rights not to be frighted out of his wits,
    by any person who had not witnessed him committing any crime. gz had witnessed no crime and had no reason to reveal his presence, so that is something he willfully did.

    Yep, to say that I’m disappointed in the prosecution would be severe understatement. I could be imagining this, but I thought at least some of them looked ashamed. I suspect they got ‘out-voted.’

    I think TM was doomed because he had the bad luck to be a young, black, male pedestrian at the Retreat at the exact moment that GZ felt his own life had reached its nadir (no money, no glory, and a fresh fight with the wife), and the cop wannabe needed a ‘collar’ to demonstrate his worth.

    GZ probably fell back on his usual M.O. that evening, which was to go prowling the neighborhood looking for trouble, and if he couldn’t find any, invent it.

    As whonoze (by way of Hannah Arendt) has pointed out, the banality of evil at work again.

    If TM had had the ‘temerity’ to resist, that would have made GZ angry.

  74. wordsalad2009
    September 23, 2013 at 2:14 PM

    HLN 20130909

    Before the trial began in June, Shawn Vincent, the communications director for the O’Mara law group, the firm that represented Zimmerman, told HLN his client raised $536,000 in total through Internet donations. However, since the trial began in June, the law firm has not released any updated figures for how much Zimmerman has raised during or after the trial.

  75. wordsalad2009
    September 24, 2013 at 9:32 PM

    This is ‘nice’:

    News 13 PDF of Miscellaneous Kelly Sims Documents

    I’m also including a picture, taken by me on the afternoon of September 9, 2013, of the packaging for an Uncle Mike’s Law Enforcement Cross-Harness Horizontal Shoulder Holster (See Attachment C). This is the empty container that Shellie first discovered in the marital home on the afternoon of September 7, 2013, during the Saturday removal of property…

  76. wordsalad2009
    September 26, 2013 at 10:39 AM

    Interview of SZ by Matt Lauer, aired Thursday, September 26, 2013:

    ABC Today

    • wassointeresting
      September 26, 2013 at 2:28 PM

      Wow! The cops are still backing GZ? Shellie said that it was the COPS who told her she’d be the only one to stay in jail if she pressed charges against her husband because she was on on probation for a lie she told FOR her husband? How screwed up is that?

      • wordsalad2009
        September 26, 2013 at 3:27 PM

        Eh, not necessarily supporting GZ.

        We weren’t privy to the exchange, and so have no idea of its tenor, but it’s also possible that the cops were giving her a well-meant reminder about a harsh reality: SZ is on probation, and getting into anything remotely resembling trouble would be bad for her.

  77. wordsalad2009
    September 26, 2013 at 11:11 AM

    EXCLUSIVE VIDEO: New video reveals that George Zimmerman was pulled over by a trooper with the Florida Highway Patrol in Brevard County last month.

    On August 19, the trooper spotted a truck on Interstate 95 and noticed it had a tinted tag cover that was darker than the legal limit.

    Zimmerman was issued a warning by the troopers and did not receive a speeding ticket. He was told to get the window tint and tag fixed.

    WOFL FOX 35 ORLANDO

    • wordsalad2009
      September 26, 2013 at 6:27 PM

      Per journo Christi O’Connor’s blog, she has more on GZ’s August 19 cop stop–but she isn’t telling just yet:

      The Jeopardies of Georgine

      But, there is much more to this story. It is not what’s happening here. It is what is NOT. Exclusive details involving a knife and a new Kel Tec Shotgun this afternoon. Stay tuned, here.

    • wassointeresting
      September 26, 2013 at 9:12 PM

      Well, if he would just stop getting pulled over then he wouldn’t have to worry about his Tags being splashed all over the internet.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 26, 2013 at 9:32 PM

        Yeah, why do I suspect that the windows of his 2008 Honda Ridgeline have been tinted like that for years, but GZ told the trooper that it was done for ‘security’ in the same way he twists the truth any time he’s in a tough spot?

        With regard to his reflective tag covers: anyone who’s paid much attention to the evidence trail already knows GZ’s tag number.

        I wonder if this knife O’Connor is talking about is the same knife GZ used to ravage the iPad.

        • unitron
          September 26, 2013 at 9:37 PM

          “Yeah, why do I suspect that the windows of his 2008 Honda Ridgeline have been tinted like that for years, but GZ told the trooper that it was done for ‘security’ in the same way he twists the truth any time he’s in a tough spot?”

          So they’ve been darker than allowed legally for years and he never got pulled for it until the other day?

          And how long has he had the clear cover over his license plate?

        • wassointeresting
          September 27, 2013 at 12:31 AM

          Just dunno. Beginning to wonder if GZ has some sort of as yet unnamed condition. Just think of people with Munchausen syndrome, who constantly act sick in order to get attention from doctors. Well, all his life, GZ is constantly getting into situations, good or bad, where he’s getting attention from the cops and other gun toting people. When the trial was over, I had thought that he’d just disappear for awhile and concentrate on winning the NBC suit, but nope.

  78. wordsalad2009
    September 26, 2013 at 3:18 PM

    It occurred to me that GZ might have been pulled over for the tint problem the same day as his Kel-Tec tour, but the tour was supposedly on August 22, and the tint incident was on the 19th.

    BTW, according to Google Maps/Directions, it’s almost 60 miles from the Lake Mary address to Kel-Tec in Cocoa.

    One of GZ’s ever-loving supporters needs to get him a job to occupy his time (and, you know, earn some money).

  79. wordsalad2009
    September 26, 2013 at 4:08 PM

    Here’s an interesting opinion piece about so-called White Hispanics:

    T. Better Baldwin at Global Grind

    I myself remember being told a long time ago (in a far-off galaxy) that in Mexico, the term Hispanic (without the “white” qualifier) had a slightly pejorative quality to it because it connoted a fancy white person who happened to speak Spanish as their first language.

  80. wordsalad2009
    September 26, 2013 at 7:41 PM

    Thought I’d put this one at “the bottom” of the thread. The Orlando Sentinel is pretty specific about the location of GZ’s cop stop on August 19:

    Orlando Sentinel 20130926

    The warning paperwork indicates that the stop occurred about 11 a.m. at mile marker 208 on southbound Interstate 95.

    Per google maps, that’s about six miles north of the exit for Cocoa.

    Nothing in the OS piece (or any others that I could see) about a knife and shotgun, so I guess it’ll be a case of hanging around the pier, waiting for O’Connor to tell about “little Nell” (or “little Mr. Kneel for the Lake Mary Police”).

  81. wordsalad2009
    September 26, 2013 at 9:11 PM

    No joy yet on O’Connor’s ‘exclusive’ story involving a knife and a shotgun. This Bay News 9 piece has more detail about GZ’s August 19 cop stop:

    Bay News 9

    Florida Highway Patrol confirms Zimmerman was pulled over back on August 19 in southern Brevard County on southbound I-95. FHP says a trooper stopped Zimmerman and issued a written warning for faulty equipment because Zimmerman’s license plate was covered with a clear but reflective material. The trooper also noticed Zimmerman’s windows were tinted, and after using an instrument to measure the tinting determined it was too dark by law.

    FHP says George Zimmerman told the trooper that he had the dark tint to protect him against death threats.

    This was not a citation, but a written warning. As long as George Zimmerman gets rid of the dark window tinting and removes the clear covering over his license tag, he doesn’t have to pay anything or do anything else. But FHP says if he doesn’t take those measures and he’s pulled over again, he could get a non-moving violation.

  82. wordsalad2009
    September 26, 2013 at 9:54 PM

    unitron :
    “Yeah, why do I suspect that the windows of his 2008 Honda Ridgeline have been tinted like that for years, but GZ told the trooper that it was done for ‘security’ in the same way he twists the truth any time he’s in a tough spot?”
    So they’ve been darker than allowed legally for years and he never got pulled for it until the other day?
    And how long has he had the clear cover over his license plate?

    I don’t know how long GZ has had heavily tinted windows and reflective tag covers, but, yes, I do think it’s possible for someone to go around for years like that. I think GZ may finally have run out of ‘luck’ that way. He’s on everybody’s ‘radar’ now.

  83. wordsalad2009
    September 27, 2013 at 9:35 AM

    wassointeresting :
    Just dunno. Beginning to wonder if GZ has some sort of as yet unnamed condition. Just think of people with Munchausen syndrome, who constantly act sick in order to get attention from doctors. Well, all his life, GZ is constantly getting into situations, good or bad, where he’s getting attention from the cops and other gun toting people. When the trial was over, I had thought that he’d just disappear for awhile and concentrate on winning the NBC suit, but nope.

    Btfsplkitis?:

    Yeah, I DID spell that right.

    Naw, because Btfsplk, despite being the world’s worst jinx, was a well-intentioned guy.

    • unitron
      September 27, 2013 at 9:54 AM

      A little surprising to see an afficianado of super right-winger Al Capp around here.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 27, 2013 at 10:40 AM

        It’s mostly an age thing. I grew up reading Lil’ Abner, and the political allusions went right over my head. Oddly enough, my favorite character was the same as creator Capp’s: Mammy Yokum.

        Capp’s personal life didn’t bear close scrutiny, but when you come right down to it, whose does?

        • unitron
          September 27, 2013 at 11:46 AM

          I was fairly young (6, 7, ?) when I started reading him myself, but I feel pretty sure that there was an actual movement from general satire to specific blame the liberals for everything in his work as the years progressed, until it was finally so one-sided that I didn’t miss it when it went away, though I can’t remember if that due to retirement or the paper discontinuing it before he did.

    • wassointeresting
      September 27, 2013 at 10:57 AM

      Ah, he does bring misfortune to others around him, but it ain’t bad luck.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 27, 2013 at 11:00 AM

        Boy howdy, doesn’t that have the ring of truth about it?

  84. wordsalad2009
    September 27, 2013 at 10:54 AM

    O’Connor says that the update on her ‘exclusive’ has been delayed:

    O’Connor’s Ad Hoc Blog

    Note: Needing a confirmation from a police department that is not responding. Will post this story today, however. Thanks for your patience.

  85. wordsalad2009
    September 27, 2013 at 12:14 PM

    unitron :
    I was fairly young (6, 7, ?) when I started reading him myself, but I feel pretty sure that there was an actual movement from general satire to specific blame the liberals for everything in his work as the years progressed, until it was finally so one-sided that I didn’t miss it when it went away, though I can’t remember if that due to retirement or the paper discontinuing it before he did.

    Capp died in 1979, but stopped writing Li’l Abner in 1977:

    Al Capp, per Wikipedia

    Of course, when any one newspaper stopped carrying the strip was variable. I don’t remember when I stopped reading it myself. I still dig up stuff like that just to reminisce, the way old folks have a way of doing. };-)

    • unitron
      September 27, 2013 at 6:19 PM

      I’m pretty sure he was in the Raleigh paper and not the local one, and I didn’t see either much in the early ’70s, so I can’t be sure when they dropped it, but it must have been gone from the N&O by ’76 or ’77, if not earlier.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 27, 2013 at 9:37 PM

        Hmm, I wish I could say exactly when it was that I last read LA ‘live,’ but I can’t with any certainty. At a guess, around 1972. It sounds like we didn’t miss much that was good, because Capp himself in 1977 said (let’s see if I can do this without breaking wordpress and causing Perfesser whonoze needless work):

        If you have any sense of humor about your strip—and I had a sense of humor about mine—you knew that for three or four years Abner was wrong. Oh hell, it’s like a fighter retiring. I stayed on longer than I should have…
        Wikipedia Article on Capp

  86. wordsalad2009
    September 27, 2013 at 9:50 PM

    Ugh! Looks like that didn’t work so hot. Hope I didn’t break the thread. My humblest apologies if I did, whonoze. I guess I need to suck it up and learn HTML somewhere else.

    Meanwhile, on the Jeopardies of Georgine front, O’Connor says she’s having some trouble getting the requisite number of sources on record:

    New Note: My sincere apologies. Information just came in. We have it. I can’t report some things, even those I’m sure of…without two sources on record. Got it. Diligently editing now. We will work until dawn to get it on. Thank you for your patience. Christi

  87. wordsalad2009
    September 28, 2013 at 1:04 PM

    Still no joy on O’Connor’s promised exclusive update, but I found a PDF of the warning issued by the state trooper back on the 19th of August:

    PDF Courtesy of WTSP

    Looks like GZ’s tags are due to expire on his birthday.

  88. wordsalad2009
    September 28, 2013 at 10:02 PM

    Dang it, unitron, you got me doing some more digging about Capp and Li’l Abner. I found copies of the last three LA daily strips published, and the penultimate one is a bit chilling when viewed through the prism of the Martin killing:

    The Last Three LA Dailies, Courtesy of The Comics Journal

    Capp was a bundle of contradictions, something I had no inkling about as a comics-loving child, but he and I could at least agree with Mammy’s famous aphorism, “Good is better than evil because it’s nicer.”

    • unitron
      September 28, 2013 at 10:28 PM

      Was that Li’l Abner’s favorite comic strip characater, Fearless Fosdick?

      (about whom I’d completely forgotten).

      • wordsalad2009
        September 29, 2013 at 9:58 AM

        You’re right on the money. It was indeed Fearless Fosdick (a parody of Dick Tracy). I suspect that Capp was doing ‘final bows’ for most of the major recurring characters of Li’l Abner:

        Fearless Fosdick, per Wikipedia

        In continuing the comparison, I suppose we could characterize GZ as Zealous Zimmerman, but that wouldn’t be right, would it? He’s actually overzealous. Well, not to mention that he isn’t actually a cop.

  89. wordsalad2009
    September 29, 2013 at 10:25 AM

    The legal posturing goes on in the Zimmerman homicide case:

    Tallahassee Dot Com

    It has to do with email, and in this case, a redacted version of an email sent by the Sanford Police Department Volunteer Program Coordinator (presumably Dorival) to GZ.

    Who this Chandler is would be an interesting question.

  90. wordsalad2009
    September 30, 2013 at 10:22 AM

    @ unitron,

    I saw ya over there at ‘fogwatch’ asking them why they’re bothering about something as trifling as GZ’s email address from a couple of years ago.

    Point taken, but consider that the thrust of what the Chandler brothers and their associates seems to be doing is acting as a watchdog on Florida’s ‘Sunshine’ laws.

    Whether the content of GZ’s emails with other private entities is subject to the sunshine laws, I dunno.

    Myself, I’m still waiting on O’Connor’s exclusive update. No joy as of 14:20 UTC:

    O’ Connor’s Ad Hoc Blog

    • unitron
      September 30, 2013 at 10:33 AM

      I was wondering why, with the content of all of his emails that are subject to Florida’s “Sunshine” law already made public, anyone would need the email address he was using back then.

      If there’s a reason other than to try to obtain the content of private emails of his, I can’t think of it.

      • wordsalad2009
        September 30, 2013 at 10:51 AM

        I don’t know what fogwatch dot org’s interest is, other than the general principle of open government.

        In truth, the email address GZ used was probably already exposed, albeit inadvertently, through sloppy redaction in one of the first couple-three state discovery dumps.

        I myself would like to have a gander at some of GZ’s emails from that period, but I doubt that We the Little People will ever see them.

        • unitron
          September 30, 2013 at 11:49 AM

          Being accused of a crime, or investigated to see if there are grounds for an accusal, does not mean a person suddenly has no right to privacy at all.

          And it seems odd that someone would go to the trouble of filing suit to get Zimmerman’s email address from his communications with the police about the neighborhood watch program if that address had already been accidentally leaked.

  91. wordsalad2009
    September 30, 2013 at 12:16 PM

    unitron :
    Being accused of a crime, or investigated to see if there are grounds for an accusal, does not mean a person suddenly has no right to privacy at all.
    And it seems odd that someone would go to the trouble of filing suit to get Zimmerman’s email address from his communications with the police about the neighborhood watch program if that address had already been accidentally leaked.

    No indeed. I can’t get into the brain of Chandler to know what he wants, but I myself have little interest in GZ’s various activities, past or present, except as they may shed light on a mindset that precipitated homicide.

    As to the email address(es), I think that if you would look at the first few state discovery dumps, you might see a couple things.

    One is that GZ had more than one email address, which would not be terribly unusual. It looks like he tried to ‘compartmentalize’ his various functions/interests that way.

    Another is that the fonts used don’t always lend themselves to easy deduction of the redacted portions via space consumed (unlike Courier font in which every character occupies the same amount of space).

  92. wordsalad2009
    October 1, 2013 at 10:18 AM

    GZ is a linguistic phenomenon now:

    Columbus Dispatch 20131001

    ‘I’m gonna George Zimmerman you …,’ he said. ‘I’m a registered gun owner. I can shoot you and get away with it.’

    In other no-news, still no exclusive update from Christi O’Connor. When she said a few days ago, “We will work until dawn to get it on,” perhaps she was talking about the dawn of the fourth millennium.

    • wassointeresting
      October 1, 2013 at 10:43 AM

      Using GZ’s full name as a verb is kinda awkward…how about just “zimmer” as in “I’m gonna zimmer you…..” Think that’ll catch on and make it into Websters next year?

      • wordsalad2009
        October 1, 2013 at 11:01 AM

        I can only hope that if GZ makes it into the dictionary, it will be in the least flattering way possible.

  93. October 1, 2013 at 3:02 PM

    Regarding the florida sunshine “open govt” laws etc and the recent court fight… looks like the special prosecutors were involved in slowing the compliance of the request for full disclosure.

    I for one am not surprised. Angela Corey pushed for gag orders and also redacted documents given to the press in a general attitude that showed they wanted to err on the side of secrecy rather than openness. Technically it was the court system that shared the information that bloggers poured over for the most part.

    • wordsalad2009
      October 1, 2013 at 6:21 PM

      Yep, I remember a long time ago (“Such a wee thing that the wind blew the crinolines right up over my head”) when I naïvely thought that the state was redacting stuff because they were concerned that too much disclosure might cause them to lose the case.

  94. wordsalad2009
    October 2, 2013 at 2:43 PM

    This message on O’Connor’s ad hoc ‘Zimmerman’ blog today:

    http://zimmermanverdict.net/

    Update: My apologies for the delay. New information that belongs in this story keeps arising. Still confirming and re editing. Won’t stop until it’s done.

  95. wordsalad2009
    October 3, 2013 at 10:48 AM

    Jack Cashill has another propaganda piece out. The only worthwhile nugget in it for me is this:

    WND

    On Monday, Attorney General Eric Holder assured the faithful that the civil-rights investigation into the February 2012 shooting death of Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla., was ‘ongoing.’

    Speaking as a member of the ‘”faithful,” I do hope that the investigation is indeed still “ongoing.” They’ve only got about another 147 days.

  96. wordsalad2009
    October 4, 2013 at 3:39 PM

    Well, this would be an ‘interesting’ approach:

    Click Orlando 20131003

    Surveillance video shows George Zimmerman throwing an iPad to the ground. Lake Mary police say they have now purchased a new iPad to help retrieve video files from the damaged one to see if video Shellie shot shows anything that may bring criminal charges against her or George.

    Or against anybody else on-scene, for that matter.

    I know diddly about iPads, but the incident report describes it as “WHITE WITH SILVER BACK 64GB,” and the estimated value as “$600.00.”

    Laying out for an iPad that they can ‘cannibalize’ would be chump change compared to the expense of, say, having the Treasury folks try to extract the data. If that’s all it takes, that is…

  97. wordsalad2009
    October 6, 2013 at 10:31 AM

    I was busy yesterday, and ‘clean’ forgot that GZ had an anniversary:

    The Epoch Times 20131005

    I myself didn’t find that tweet with the picture of Chaz Bono particularly funny. Bono might be overweight, but s/he isn’t a killer. Bono is far more attractive than GZ ever could be…

    Hope GZ didn’t ‘celebrate’ the big three-oh by killing anyone else.

  98. wordsalad2009
    October 7, 2013 at 4:30 PM

    The State v. Zimmerman case will be parodied on “South Park” in an episode due to air this Wednesday night, 10ET/9CT:

    Variety 20131007

    According to the synopsis of the episode, “The world faces death, destruction, chaos and Eric Cartman in all-new episode of ‘South Park’ titled ‘World War Zimmerman’ … Cartman is deeply disturbed by a single person who he sees as a threat to all humanity. He races around the country to put an end to Patient Zero, the ticking time bomb that is Token.”
    Token is of course the lone African American character on the series.

  99. wordsalad2009
    October 10, 2013 at 3:01 PM

    Well, the “South Park World War Zimmerman” episode was ‘interesting.’

    Basically, it was a mash-up parody of Brad Pitt’s “World War Z” movie, and the Zimmerman homicide case. There’s only so much one can do in a 22 minute cartoon…

    Here’s a cathartic clip (looped) for those who think GZ should have fried:

  100. wordsalad2009
    October 10, 2013 at 3:03 PM

    Oops, something went wrong with the link in the last post. Hope I didn’t foul the thread. Trying again:

    Guyism dot com on 20131009

  101. wordsalad2009
    October 10, 2013 at 7:29 PM

    A review of the South Park WWZ episode from Steve Schneider at the Orlando Weekly:

    Orlando Weekly 20131010

  102. wordsalad2009
    October 11, 2013 at 12:32 AM

    CNN will have a special on the Zimmerman case Sunday night at 10ET:

    Orlando Sentinel 20131010

    We examine questions that were never answered. What is it about the case that seems to be affecting so many people on a personal level? Why Sanford? Why did the case become what it did?

    • October 11, 2013 at 10:07 PM

      probably a “clip show” aka an excuse to reuse old footage of people walking in and out of courtroom, etc. Still, glad to see there is some interest still on a national level in the actual mechanics of the case, possibly.

      From a journalistic perspective CNN is likely on to the race and gun angles. Too bad it’s really a whodunit at heart.

      • wordsalad2009
        October 12, 2013 at 11:45 AM

        Yeah, probably, but I’m still going to have a look.

        You’re right about it being a ‘whodunit.’

        We know who fired the bullet that ended TM’s life; what we don’t know is all the actors that enabled GZ to walk–and why.

        Still no joy on O’Connor’s promised exclusive about GZ’s cop stop back in August.

        I’m still interested because of the knife and shotgun angle.

        What I want to know: is the knife the same one GZ used to mutilate the iPad? Somehow, I can’t see GZ having a new ‘toy’ and not using it. And did GZ actually buy a shotgun, or did Kel-Tec give him one in return for publicity?

        I wonder if O’Connor is having difficulty with her two-source journalism rule, or is she holding back now because more light on the story will cause trouble for one of her big, long-term sources: SZ?

        • October 12, 2013 at 11:56 AM

          There;s no way to know. O’Connor did manage to gain some measure of access with SZ but access and truth are mutually exclusive terms.

          I feel the whodunit concerned deciphering GZ’s lies to SPD and reconstructing as much as possible his actual movements from existing evidence.

          Many things are possible; what GZ claimed happened is not possible, therefore something else happened and he saw fir to lie about it.

  103. wordsalad2009
    October 12, 2013 at 12:58 PM

    @ willisnewton,

    Yeah, O’Connor has committed to telling SZ’s story.

    As to reconstructing GZ’s movements that evening from the available evidence, I suspect that effort has gone about as far as it can, don’t you?

    We’ll probably never know the whole truth, and not just because I suspect GZ has been a life-long liar. I have to wonder if he even knows the full ‘truth’ of what happened in those minutes that fateful evening, because he seems to live in a fantasy world.

    Even if he does know, he ain’t gonna tell, because the truth would only cause him to be less ‘popular’ than he already is.

    Here’s an article with some stats on GZ:

    Florida Center for Investigative Reporting 20131011

    Florida voters don’t like George Zimmerman, giving him a 20/47 favorability rating. But they also agree with the verdict in his trial with 47% saying it was right for him to be found not guilty, compared to 37% who think he should have been convicted. Even with his continued bad press in the aftermath of the trial Republican voters express a favorable opinion of Zimmerman (30/24) while Democrats (11/67) and independents (24/41) strongly dislike him.

    • October 12, 2013 at 2:56 PM

      We know, as I said, that he felt it necessary to lie about his movements from clubhouse to cut thru vicinity, and that he’s covering up criminal activity on his own part in so doing. At least, he’s lied to police investigators after the fact, and it seems obvious he’s lied about how he first came to notice Trayvon that evening, very likely only spotting him as the teen waited out the rain by the mail kiosk.

      We also know that GZ never once offered the information that TM ran away from him, instead always reversing the action to make TM seem the aggressor in an impossible tale that cannot be reconciled with his recorded NEN call.

      What happened in the dark alley between residences is more unclear but it matters little form a legal standpoint since he had zero right to claim self defense after chasing the teen with his moving car, which could have been proven in court but was not due to a poor investigation that missed the clues that show what happened.

      IMO a better investigation would have given prosecutors the proof they needed to gain a conviction on at least manslaughter charges if not M2. Motives and such are beyond my ability to prove. But this group on this blog has more than proved that GZ lied to investigators and used his car to pursue the teen off the roadway in an aggressive act that does away with his right to claim justifiable homicide happened next.

      • wordsalad2009
        October 12, 2013 at 3:12 PM

        The state might never have been able to prove murder beyond a reasonable doubt, but it sure seems to me like manslaughter should have been a slam-dunk.

    • wordsalad2009
      October 12, 2013 at 3:02 PM

      Those stats quoted in that FCIR piece weren’t all intelligible to me, so I chased the links back to the source document:

      Public Policy Polling PDF Page 39 of 41

      Five hundred seventy nine voters seems like a mighty small sample.

      • unitron
        October 12, 2013 at 5:33 PM

        Polling, like radio and TV ratings, always uses a much smaller sample size than sounds adequate.

        Supposedly people with actual doctorates in statistics worked out long ago how many or how few persons are needed to get a representative sample of the total.

        • wordsalad2009
          October 12, 2013 at 6:19 PM

          What, you mean folks with Piled Higher and Deeper degrees in ‘sadistics?’ };-)

          Yeah, I suppose so.

  104. wordsalad2009
    October 15, 2013 at 12:09 PM

    Is Jack Cashill on a payroll, and if so, whose?

    American Thinker (So-Called) 20131015

    In one of the two more imaginative contortions, CNN, employing its best fake science, interpreted an utterly intelligible word muttered by Zimmerman on the dispatcher call as ‘coons.’ No one dismissed it as ‘trash talk’ or excused Zimmerman for only saying it once. Truth is, he never said ‘coons.’ The prosecution settled on ‘punks,’ but the most likely word was ‘cold’ as in it’s ‘f***ing cold.’

    (Changes in punctuation of the blockquote were mine in an attempt to avoid trouble with wordpress.)

    “Truth is,” it was GZ himself that put forth the improbable “punks” suggestion. That’s a fact, ‘Jack.’ (And shame on the authorities for swallowing that one.)

    As to “f***ing cold”–honey, please. If GZ had actually said something that innocuous, then why would he not have simply admitted that, rather than trying to soft-pedal the “f***ing punks” idea?

    How threatening is the possibility that the feds might decide GZ actually said “fucking coons?”

    By my count, there are now 135 more days until the deadline (February 26, 2014).

    • October 18, 2013 at 3:57 PM

      Oh my, will the Zimmietards ever get the facts right? (No, they won’t…) CNN, Jack, is the source of the ‘fucking cold’ theory. The network ran two pieces on the ‘mystery phrase’. In the first one, an engineer just looped the phrase over and over, and it was opined that it sounded like “fucking coons.” No science, fake or otherwise, was involved. In the second, later, piece a different engineer ran the ‘mystery phrase’ through a broadband noise reduction (BNR) plug-in to “enhance” it. This story was so inept, they didn’t even cut-in the ‘enhanced’ audio into the soundtrack, we only heard it as picked up by the reporter’s mic as it played back on the studio monitor. It STILL sounded like “fucking coons”, but the tool of an engineer offered that it sounded to HIM like “fucking cold.” By the way, Jack, THIS is fake science. BNR software inherently alters the sound fed into it. There is no automatic setting. It has many parameters that have to be set manually. The ONLY way this software works effectively is if you know what the clip is SUPPOSED to sound like. That way you tweak the settings to eliminate ‘noise’ without destroying the intelligibility of the ‘signal’. Attempting to use this software to decipher a a questionable bit of speech is the height of audio incompetence.

      But of course, a wing nut like Cashill has to condemn the Evil Mainstream Media at every opportunity, so he conveniently twists the source of his own “most likely word” on it’s head.

      • wordsalad2009
        October 18, 2013 at 10:17 PM

        Thanks for the technical explanation, whonoze.

        Yeah, Cashill is an obvious propagandist. I’d say, “Who cares?” but then I think of Joseph Goebbels.

        Dang it, now I’ve gone and broken Godwin’s Law….

  105. wordsalad2009
    October 15, 2013 at 12:30 PM

    At around the 45 minute mark in the CNN special Tragedy on Trial, Mark Nejame wondered why the prosecution didn’t focus on manslaughter, and GZ’s irresponsible behavior that evening (bad mood because of a probable fight with his spouse, following a “suspicious” person while packing heat).

    Good question, but it’s just after-the-fact, armchair quarterbacking unless *someone* does something to redress the miscarriage of justice in GZ’s acquittal of all charges in the death of TM.

  106. wordsalad2009
    October 18, 2013 at 12:24 PM

    Hat tip to Fred Leatherman for this link:

    Florida Today 20131018

    George Zimmerman’s defense attorney will be the featured speaker at a Gun Rights Preservation Forum next month in Viera.

    The Nov. 4 event, organized by the Republican Liberty Caucus of Central East Florida, also will include a raffle in which the prize is a Kel-Tec 9 mm semiautomatic pistol and a Bible.

    Mark O’Mara will speak at the event.

    The pistol is being provided by a pawnbroker. No word on who’s ponying up the Bible.

    As poster “tsar” at the Leatherman blog said, “Stay classy, Florida.”

    • wordsalad2009
      October 18, 2013 at 1:16 PM

      Eh, that was unfair of me. Not all pawnbrokers are jackasses, much less all Floridians.

  107. wordsalad2009
    October 20, 2013 at 5:24 PM

    Ooo, at first glance, it looked like someone was taking my handle in vain:

    Talk Left Thread from 20131019

    It turns out someone had used it as a common noun (albeit a slang one) in another thread.

    Color me relieved. I wouldn’t want to have to go over there, and thereby give the owner/operator the opportunity to club me like a baby seal. };-)

  108. wordsalad2009
    October 22, 2013 at 12:38 PM

    A new book is coming out tomorrow about Rupert Murdoch. Among other things, the author alleges that Murdoch had his Public Relations people mount an aggressive campaign of ‘sock puppet’ postings on the Internet to promote and defend the fledgling Fox News:

    Washington Post 20131021

    This strikes me as unsurprising, and this comment on the article sounds right on the money to me:

    LeftGuy
    9:13 AM CST
    I once got into a web rumble with anonymous bloggers about my position on China, specifically, the degree of pollution in the air and water in that country, caused by massive investments in infrastructure, power plants without the basic regulations common in Europe and the Americas.

    I quickly learned I was arguing with paid government agents who sole job was to blog in defense of China. I find no surprise in the fact that Fox employs paid bloggers. The GOP uses the web=waves as do the Dems. I have been offered a chance to make money doing this, but don’t want to spend my entire day arguing for a living.

    Regardless of how many times Fox is exposed for its deceitful practices, it maintains a loyal viewer base that enjoys being whipped into a frenzy with falsehoods and half truths. Hannity is the worst, but no one can top John Stossel, who pretends to be a journalist. Would that we could find the pro wrestler who slapped John upside his ear and buy him a cup of coffee.

    What does any of this have to do with the Zimmerman case? You be the judge…

  109. wordsalad2009
    October 23, 2013 at 8:57 AM

    Well, there’s an update (of sorts) on Christi O’Connor’s ad hoc GZ blog:

    zimmerman verdict dot net 20131023

    While other reporters scramble to get that story, I’ll complete the final touches on my investigation and post it around 3 PM EDT today. I’ll also tweet when I’ve posted.
    This entry was posted in Zimmerman Verdict on October 23, 2013.

    • unitron
      October 23, 2013 at 9:13 AM

      I’ve been wondering if she was ever really going to post this.

      She has a funny way of wording things though.

      Like saying Zimmerman wasn’t charged with stealing because they didn’t have proof of ownership, and leaving out that they said he stole a television of which they still had possession.

      I remain unconvinced of her objectivity, impartiality, and devotion to the facts above all else.

      • wassointeresting
        October 23, 2013 at 10:58 AM

        She refers to the big guy as GZ’s bodyguard, but I thought he was just his long-time friend (maybe the same guy from his old myspace account?) In any case, I think GZ’s too cheap right now to pay anybody to actually be a bodyguard.

        • unitron
          October 23, 2013 at 11:02 AM

          Well, if cheap means “does not have unlimited funds”, then, yeah, could be.

        • wordsalad2009
          October 23, 2013 at 1:14 PM

          I dunno, but the guy in the update at O’Connor’s blog doesn’t look at all like the so-called friend (compare with the picture below):

          Bay News 9 JPG 20130911

        • wassointeresting
          October 23, 2013 at 3:33 PM

          No, the guy in the picture behind the cop in that picture is white and not the friend that has been referred to as a “400-lb bodyguard” who has been identified as Wesley. He’s a friend, but his size makes him look like a bodyguard. However, it’s not impossible that he might have been paid from the defense fund just to hang out with GZ, but that’s pure speculation of course.

          http://www.today.com/news/george-zimmermans-wife-i-have-doubts-i-also-believe-evidence-8C11257699

      • wordsalad2009
        October 23, 2013 at 12:58 PM

        Well, and if you read the latest entry semi-carefully, it sounds like the update might be limited to information about the ‘pots-and-pans’ dispute, which is not terribly interesting (to me, anyway).

        There’s no mention of updated information about the effort to retrieve video data from the damaged iPad, or the promised knife-and-gun story, and those items would interest me.

        Yeah, at the very least, O’Connor has to tread carefully because she has committed to telling SZ’s story.

  110. wordsalad2009
    October 23, 2013 at 3:07 PM

    Welp, it would seem that the update has been delayed because of technical difficulties:

    zimmermanverdict dot net 15:00ET

    Alert: At the last step, when I clicked “Finalize,” iMovie 11 crashed. A nightmare of an editing experience throughout we will not repeat. Working on recovery. I’ll post as soon as we get it back and rendered. My sincere apologies.

    • unitron
      October 23, 2013 at 3:11 PM

      “Welp, it would seem that the update has been delayed because of technical difficulties”

      Fortunately, I figured out a while back not to be holding my breath with regards to that story.

      Is iMovie Apple’s version of Notepad, so that she can’t even post plain text?

      • wordsalad2009
        October 23, 2013 at 3:19 PM

        “Is iMovie Apple’s version of Notepad, so that she can’t even post plain text?”

        Yeah, when I saw that message about the iMovie, I thought longingly about plain text, Luddite that I am.

    • wordsalad2009
      October 23, 2013 at 3:16 PM

      I suppose I dare hope that the “iMovie 11” reference means they’ve been able to extract the video from SZ’s iPad. Nah, it probably just means that O’Connor is an Apple fan…

  111. wordsalad2009
    October 23, 2013 at 3:45 PM

    wassointeresting :
    No, the guy in the picture behind the cop in that picture is white and not the friend that has been referred to as a “400-lb bodyguard” who has been identified as Wesley. He’s a friend, but his size makes him look like a bodyguard. However, it’s not impossible that he might have been paid from the defense fund just to hang out with GZ, but that’s pure speculation of course.
    http://www.today.com/news/george-zimmermans-wife-i-have-doubts-i-also-believe-evidence-8C11257699

    Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking “Wesley” was indeed the guy in the Bay News 9 picture.

    Yeah, no telling if the guy in the O’Connor blog photo is on a payroll. You’d think GZ would have better uses for money, but then when you look at the reported expenditures from the so-called defense fund…

  112. wordsalad2009
    October 23, 2013 at 5:05 PM

    So far, the only thing I’ve found on Google News is this relatively anemic piece:

    The Epoch Times 20131023

    In it, it says “Fox Orlando reporter Valerie Boey reported that Lake Mary police officials said no charges will be filed.”

    If you follow the provided link to Boey’s Twitter, she does indeed report that, but she follows up two minutes later with “The domestic violence case between #Georgezimmerman and Shellie is still under investigation.”

  113. wordsalad2009
    October 23, 2013 at 5:48 PM

    WFTV has a bit more, including a link to a PDF of the ‘finalized’ LMPD offense report (on the theft allegations):

    WFTV 20131023

  114. wordsalad2009
    October 23, 2013 at 5:52 PM

    The Orlando Sentinel’s piece:

    Stutzman at the Orlando Sentinel 20131023

  115. wordsalad2009
    October 24, 2013 at 10:40 AM

    Dear, oh dear.

    This morning O’Connor’s ad hoc blog (zimmermanverdict dot net) gets redirected to this:

    Some redirect messaging service

    This site has stepped out for a bit
    If you’re the site owner, contact us at 1-480-505-8855. If you are a visitor, please check back soon.

    Her ad hoc twitter feed (ztrialchristi) has been silent for almost a month. Hmmm…

    • unitron
      October 24, 2013 at 10:44 AM

      I wonder if someone’s cybermouth wrote a check that their…

      …well you know how the rest goes.

      • wordsalad2009
        October 24, 2013 at 11:10 AM

        Possibly.

        The thing that’s troubling me this morning (well, besides O’Connor’s ad hoc blog being MIA this morning that is) is that most of the reportage seems to conflate the theft allegation with the domestic violence one.

        Fox Orlando journo Valerie Boey didn’t, however. (Caveat: twitter times seem to be Pacific. I noticed that for most twitter users during the trial. I suspect this might be a ‘default’ when somebody creates a twitter account.):

        Boey’s Twitter Feed

        Valerie Boey ‏@vboey…The domestic violence case between #Georgezimmerman and Shellie is still under investigation:#FOX35
        12:45 PM – 23 Oct 13…

        …Lake Mary PD says there will be no charges filed in the theft case that occurred in the house where George & Shellie Zimmerman lived.#FOX35
        12:43 PM – 23 Oct 13…

        • unitron
          October 24, 2013 at 11:40 AM

          I’d say that should read “alleged theft case which allegedly occurred in the house”.

          Since we know Machelle Dean was mistaken about one of the items she alleged had been stolen, I’m not sure we can take her word for it just yet about all of the rest of the stuff.

          Unless Zimmerman had a buyer lined up to take that stuff and pay him for it right away, I don’t see why he would take it if it didn’t belong to him.

          Where’s he going to put it?

  116. wordsalad2009
    October 24, 2013 at 12:08 PM

    @ unitron,

    I’d say that should read ‘alleged theft case which allegedly occurred in the house’.
    Since we know Machelle Dean was mistaken about one of the items she alleged had been stolen, I’m not sure we can take her word for it just yet about all of the rest of the stuff.
    Unless Zimmerman had a buyer lined up to take that stuff and pay him for it right away, I don’t see why he would take it if it didn’t belong to him.
    Where’s he going to put it?

    *Somebody* said that the TV turned up elsewhere (maybe in one of the Dean’s other rental properties?), but not so with the rest. Aside from any question of their worth, they’re physically large items, and it would seem that they’d be difficult to ‘misplace.’ However, if the Deans couldn’t cough up receipts for any of it, that may be why they’re SOL.

    Then there’s the defaced cabinets, but that’s probably another ‘he sez/she sez’ situation.

    The domestic violence allegation is another matter. Whether or not SZ and her father wanted to pursue charges, it was out of their hands because of the 911 call. Once you make a DV allegation to the police (in Florida, anyway), it’s up to the authorities whether charges are brought. That’s why I’m still waiting for the 411 on the iPad video…

    • unitron
      October 24, 2013 at 12:32 PM

      If the rest turned up elsewhere, we wouldn’t necessarily know about it if those who did know didn’t speak of it publicly.

      And if the charges regarding that stuff have been dropped, then I’m guessing there’s no obligation on Machelle to go back to the police and say “You know that furniture and stuff? Well, it’s the funniest thing…”

  117. wordsalad2009
    October 24, 2013 at 12:27 PM

    Once you make a DV allegation to the police (in Florida, anyway), it’s up to the authorities whether charges are brought.

    I should have said, “Once you make a DV allegation to the police, it’s up to the authorities whether charges are brought, and whom against (in Florida, anyway).”

    If they’re able to extract that iPad video, it may confirm SZ’s story. Or not.

  118. October 24, 2013 at 1:10 PM

    Mr. Dean had a visible injury to his nose – just as GZ did on the night of the killing. Maybe Dean should have killed GZ if he wanted “justice.”

    • unitron
      October 24, 2013 at 1:37 PM

      Well, if he had been pinned to the ground (or garage floor), screaming for help while George sat on top of him and kept beating him, I’d say he’d have had a pretty good case for acting in self-defense.

      Of course in his case it was well-lit and the three witnesses, him, George, and the other guy, are all still alive to give their apparently not in full agreement version of events, so it’s not exactly apples to apples.

      • wordsalad2009
        October 24, 2013 at 2:05 PM

        @ unitron,

        “Well, if he had been pinned to the ground (or garage floor), screaming for help while George sat on top of him and kept beating him, I’d say he’d have had a pretty good case for acting in self-defense.”

        The inference I’m drawing here is a comparison to what GZ claims TM did to him.

        “Of course in his case it was well-lit and the three witnesses, him, George, and the other guy, are all still alive to give their apparently not in full agreement version of events, so it’s not exactly apples to apples.”

        No, I’d say that it isn’t even apples to Ugli fruit.

        We don’t have video of those fateful few minutes at the end of TM’s life, I would that we did.

        We may have video of an altercation between GZ, SZ, and DBD. That’s what I’m hoping to see.

        • unitron
          October 24, 2013 at 2:10 PM

          I thought it was all over but the shouting by the time Shellie got out to the garage?

    • wordsalad2009
      October 24, 2013 at 1:52 PM

      @ willisnewton,

      “Mr. Dean had a visible injury to his nose – just as GZ did on the night of the killing.”

      Heh. Yeah, that’s pretty much what I was thinking.

      Did the injury to DBD’s nose look serious? No, but then neither did GZ’s injuries on the night of February 26, 2012. GZ can’t have it both ways, or can’t in my little world, anyway.

      Many are only too quick to find fault with the Deans, the Martins, et cetera, but insofar as I know, none of them have killed anybody–unlike GZ.

      The feds have got about another 126 days in which to file charges:

      timeanddate dot com

  119. wordsalad2009
    October 24, 2013 at 2:20 PM

    @ unitron,

    “I thought it was all over but the shouting by the time Shellie got out to the garage?”

    Could have been, but once again, we’re probably looking at a ‘he sez/she sez’ situation.

    That’s why I’m still hoping for the iPad video.

    I can see a situation in which DBD got verbally aggressive with GZ, GZ punched DBD, and SZ whacked GZ with the iPad.

    I can see all kinds of scenarios, but I really wanna see that iPad video.

  120. wordsalad2009
    October 24, 2013 at 3:06 PM

    @ unitron,

    “If the rest turned up elsewhere, we wouldn’t necessarily know about it if those who did know didn’t speak of it publicly.”

    “And if the charges regarding that stuff have been dropped, then I’m guessing there’s no obligation on Machelle to go back to the police and say ‘You know that furniture and stuff? Well, it’s the funniest thing…'”

    Sorry, I didn’t notice this earlier.

    I suspect the police have seen so many ‘pots-and-pans’ disputes that they largely just shrug their shoulders.

    The only thing really different about this particular PAP dispute is that one of the correspondents is an international ‘celebrity’ by virtue of having killed somebody under very ‘suspicious’ circumstances.

  121. wordsalad2009
    October 24, 2013 at 3:44 PM

    I missed this little tidbit earlier in the Orlando Sentinel piece:

    OS 20131023

    Police tried to question Zimmerman but he referred questions to his attorney, Mark O’Mara, the report said. At one point, O’Mara said he’d just pay the estimated loss himself “because his client did not need the extra attention,” the report said.

    However, that never happened.

    As “nomatter_nevermind” says at the TL/GZ forum, “Experience is a great teacher,” however, O’Mara subsequently went on record as saying: “I am not representing George Zimmerman in his recent domestic altercation case or his impending divorce case.” (CNN 20130911)

  122. wordsalad2009
    October 24, 2013 at 5:06 PM

    O’Connor’s ad hoc blog was back online when I checked just now, albeit without the promised update:

    http://zimmermanverdict.net/

  123. wordsalad2009
    October 24, 2013 at 7:32 PM

    A new version of the police offense report, courtesy of MSNBC:

    Twelve Page PDF version of the Finalized Offense Report

    The WFTV version that I linked yesterday had only six pages. The last four pages of this longer one are an eyeful.

    • unitron
      October 24, 2013 at 8:02 PM

      It may not mean anything that the brother wasn’t completely baffled about how to get into the house without a key, but it doesn’t exactly turn suspicion away from him, either.

      It’s a strange situation.

      Taking the furniture (instead of any smaller items of worth), no matter who did it, isn’t exactly something that can be done stealthily. And probably not by just one person, either.

      • wordsalad2009
        October 24, 2013 at 10:07 PM

        Much as I hate to cut GZ slack on anything, it seems quite possible that DBDJR is the primary thief, and was only too eager to divert suspicion away from himself.

        As a drug addict, DBDJR would have motive for theft. It’s ‘interesting’ that he was in some kind of lock-down rehab facility on October 22–but apparently not on September 26 when he accompanied his mother to the rental property. Yup, ‘figured out’ that he could stack trash cans and get in through an unlocked second floor window…

        Still, as you say, it seems unlikely that the thief (whoever it was) didn’t have accomplices due to the size of what was stolen. A single person might be able to handle a chair, depending on the size, but a king-sized mattress?

  124. wordsalad2009
    October 25, 2013 at 9:14 AM

    In perusing that police offense report and thinking some more:

    The confusion over the missing TV may have been because the elder Deans are divorced and were no longer living together in September 2013.

    However, that unsecured second floor window ‘bothers’ me, given the information that GZ had gone to the trouble to install new heavy duty deadbolts on the exterior doors.

    If you look at the weather statistics for Lake Mary in September, it was still pretty hot. In a ‘low-rent’ residence, you’d open a window, but that property on a cul-de-sac isn’t what I’d call low-rent. What are the odds that a property with a swimming pool, etc., wouldn’t have central air-conditioning?

    But then there is friend Wesley R.’s contention that DBDJR tried to ‘break-in’ some months back.

    Whatever, it sounds like the Deans don’t intend to pursue this matter further, and that may be because they now either know or suspect that the son is the culprit. Or, they’ve just decided that a loss of a few grand in furnishings isn’t worth the headache/heartache, considering the spotlight that anything remotely attached to GZ brings…

  125. wordsalad2009
    October 25, 2013 at 9:18 AM

    Details, details. The son can’t be a “junior” if his old man’s middle name is Bryant, but his is Jean.

  126. wordsalad2009
    October 26, 2013 at 2:51 PM

    One of GZ’s supporters has gone apostate:

    Rick Madigan on diwataman’s WordPress Blog 20130916

    I wonder what was the tipping point for Madigan.

    • unitron
      October 26, 2013 at 4:52 PM

      It’s just as likely that the line

      “But I can’t deny the truth any more: most heroes are not what we think them to be at all.”

      refers to Sundance as that it refers to Zimmerman.

      Of course this happened during a lot of speculation over at Nettles that Madigan and Sundance are the same person.

      • wordsalad2009
        October 26, 2013 at 5:21 PM

        Hmmm, so you think it possible that Rick Madigan saw Sundance as a hero, and then became disillusioned? Of course, if RM=SD, then that would add a whole nuther craziness aspect to it…

        As an ‘outsider,’ my take on it was more straightforward: RM became disillusioned with GZ.

        It could be that the alleged domestic violence incident in the first part of September (with GZ seen in surveillance video trashing SZ’s iPad) was the tipping point, but RM may well have been harboring doubts earlier.

        Making all of his blog contents unavailable seems fairly drastic, but then that does tend to lend some credence to the RM=SD speculation (doesn’t want people going back and making comparisions. The Internet can be a very paranoia-inducing environment.

        BTW, I saw that posted email exchange over there at Nettle’s blog. Once again, the Internet can be a very paranoia-inducing environment.

  127. wordsalad2009
    October 28, 2013 at 11:53 AM

    Still no joy on the iPad video, insofar as I can tell.

    In rereading the police report from the alleged domestic violence incident (not to be confused with the alleged theft incident), there may not be any charges even if the iPad video shows GZ hitting DBD in the nose, largely because of a technicality: because DBD and GZ never cohabited, it wouldn’t be considered domestic violence. DBD has already said he wouldn’t press charges, so unless the iPad video shows something else, it may be a ‘dead’ issue.

    I’d still like to see the iPad video.

    The picture of GZ and WR on O’Connor’s ad hoc ZV website shows a knife in GZ’s hand. Unless the picture has been ‘flipped,’ it’s in GZ’s right hand.

    GZ’s large friend WR is another interesting story. He claims that he’s known GZ since 2004, so that would predate GZ’s previous ‘annus horribilis’ (2005). What kind of stories might he tell (and why did he move into the cul-de-sac rental property (from approximately 1 through 16 September)?

    As to the woman in the long, black dress–who dresses like that when they’re allegedly going to help someone move?

    • unitron
      October 28, 2013 at 12:41 PM

      It’s quite possible she was already dressed for the day before the subject of helping George move came up and mostly just went along to keep them company.

      George and the big guy probably did all the heavy work.

      • wordsalad2009
        October 28, 2013 at 12:58 PM

        So Scheibe had nothing better to do on a Monday afternoon than tag along on a household move, decked out for a night on the town.

        It’s still allegedly a free country, so she can do that, but likewise I’m free to observe and call it at minimum ‘odd.’

  128. wordsalad2009
    October 28, 2013 at 12:49 PM

    “Information is where you find it. –unitron”

    Found a link for some anti-bullying effort set up by Mark O’Mara over at ‘Nettles’ blog, and in a roundabout fashion, it got me wondering whether the other large-ish male (other that Wesley R., that is) seen at the alleged domestic violence incident was actually O’Mara’s PR guy Shawn Vincent:

    O’Mara’s ‘Justice’ Outreach website

    • wordsalad2009
      October 28, 2013 at 1:51 PM

      OK, I found a copy of the picture with a caption that identifies the large-ish guy as Shawn Vincent:

      Naples News 20130911

      It may not have been news to anybody else, but it was news to me…

      GZ continues to be such a circus that everybody and their brother show up. I’d feel sorry for him, but then I remember that he’s a killer.

      • unitron
        October 28, 2013 at 1:59 PM

        I saw that picture somewhere recently, but without any identification of who in it was who.

        I wonder if Zimmerman called O’Mara’s office the moment he arrived and saw that Shellie was still at the house.

        • wordsalad2009
          October 28, 2013 at 2:29 PM

          Dunno, but per the text exchanges between SZ and GZ leading up to the incident, SZ’s presence could hardly have been a surprise. He acknowledged the visit (however grudgingly), and asked her to text him when she was done.

          O’Mara subsequently announced that he would not be representing GZ in his divorce nor in his alleged DV incident. MOM probably realized that he needed to distance himself from a client who had become a money pit.

  129. wordsalad2009
    October 29, 2013 at 10:08 AM

    USA TODAY 20131029

    …The Gun Rights Preservation Forum event is still scheduled for Nov. 4. But the raffle for a gun and a Bible will occur at a different time, probably in early December, according to Bob White, chairman of the Republican Liberty Caucus of Central East Florida, which is holding the forum…

    …’In making this decision to postpone the raffle, we are trying to be sensitive to concerns expressed by our featured speaker, Mark O’Mara, and others, regarding appearances relating to the raffling of the Kel-Tec 9 mm,’ White said in an email to the newspaper and O’Mara. ‘We have no doubt that George Zimmerman used this weapon legally in the defense of his own life. Certainly, its use prevented further serious bodily harm to himself, and he may very well have saved his own life by its use. We also recognize, though, that another life was lost in the process, and we do have empathy for the parents of Trayvon Martin. Losing their son was tragic, regardless of the circumstances.’….

    As Holden Caulfield might have said, they’re “about as sensitive as a toilet seat.”

  130. wordsalad2009
    October 29, 2013 at 10:42 AM

    If that “Catcher in the Rye” comparison seems a little insensitive, read the whole USA TODAY piece. White said that he was unaware that the firearm that they acquired for the raffle was the same model as the one used to kill TM until “Florida Today” informed him.

    Also, they’re still pairing the firearm with a religious text…

  131. wordsalad2009
    October 29, 2013 at 11:26 AM

    Of course, these chuckleheads aren’t helping, either:

    WND 20131027

    Journalist and author Jack Cashill, who covers the Zimmerman controversy in his upcoming book “If I Had a Son: Race, Guns, and the Railroading of George Zimmerman,” said the fact that Nzinga has risen to lead the radical black nationalist organization while never being charged for his threat shows the absurdity and unfairness of the American judicial system.

    And when I say “chuckleheads,” I’m including Nzinga, Cashill, and World Net Daily.

  132. wordsalad2009
    October 30, 2013 at 5:14 PM

    Radar Online 20131030

    The soon-to-be ex-wife of George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watchman acquitted in the shooting death of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, discovered a used marksman target riddled with 17 bullet holes nailed to the wall of the home the estranged couple once shared, after he was forced to move out.

    • November 2, 2013 at 11:01 AM

      More unproven claims by an admitted perjurer who may have inside knowledge regarding the events surrounding a suspicious killing. Whether I believe Shellie Zimmerman or not is immaterial. Any speculation about the meaning of this alleged incident is just that – speculation.

      One road to go down would be to say that the photo seems to show a paper target on the wall above where a desk used to be, and that people who play with guns often tack up their targets as decoration.

      Another would be to speculate that the target represents a death threat indeed, having been left (according to SZ) on the wall on the eve of her appearance on national news. Of course, were GZ to be executing a threat for her not to disclose sensitive info to the press, his timing seems a bit off since she discovered it upon her return from the interview.

      Many things are possible. What George Zimmerman claimed happened is not possible.

      What Shellie Zimmerman claims comes from a convicted perjurer, and should be subject to independent verification. (GZ lied to police investigators. Much of what he lied about HAS been subject to independent verification. He’s a liar, too.)

      • wordsalad2009
        November 2, 2013 at 3:28 PM

        Yeah, I thought I’d take the target story with a grain of salt unless and until there is more information forthcoming.

        Still, the seventeen holes were a ‘nice’ touch.

  133. wordsalad2009
    October 30, 2013 at 5:30 PM

    The Grio 20131030

    [Sanford Police] Chief Cecil Smith is banning neighborhood watch volunteers from carrying guns on patrol and from pursuing anyone on foot.

    ‘In this program, it is clearly stated that you will not pursue an individual,’ Smith told the press. ‘In this new program, it clearly indicates that you will not carry a firearm when performing your duties as a neighborhood watch captain or participant.’

    ‘There was really no accountability. There was no true recognition. There were concerns with regards to training. There were concerns with how the program was being run,’ Smith said. ‘We put a cease to the neighborhood watch program, essentially, in the manner it was in before, and what we’re doing now is really, truly revamping the entire program, starting from scratch.’

    According to local reports, the new Neighborhood Watch program will also include background checks …</blockquote?

    • November 2, 2013 at 11:03 AM

      Closing the barn door after the mule got out department… better late than never I guess.

      • wordsalad2009
        November 2, 2013 at 3:25 PM

        My thinking exactly.

        In looking around the Net, already there are gun ‘enthusiasts’ (*cough*) who are howling that the Sanford PD chief is abusing citizens’ Second Amendment rights.

        Not so, because as the chief points out, people who don’t like the new Neighborhood Watch rules are under no obligation to participate in the program: keep your firearms…far away from NW.

  134. wordsalad2009
    October 30, 2013 at 5:42 PM

    More detail on Neighborhood Watch and related programs in Florida:

    Orlando Sentinel

  135. wordsalad2009
    October 31, 2013 at 9:54 AM

    In reviewing the picture of the practice target at Radar Online, and TM’s autopsy, I noticed something else about GZ’s Modus Operandi: he shoots low and to the left.

    This guide suggests what his problem may be (you know, besides being a killer):

    Image Shack

  136. wordsalad2009
    October 31, 2013 at 8:22 PM

    Juror B-29 says that since serving on the jury that acquitted GZ of all charges in the homicide of TM, she’s had death threats, lost her friends, her job, her furniture, and may lose her home:

    Inside Edition 20131031

    • November 2, 2013 at 10:53 AM

      Has this segment aired on television? The article is rather vague as to why exactly Juror B-29, (the minority member who initially voted for M2 charges) lost her job, leading to her current financial problems. Certainly she must be under a great deal of stress.

      I’d say she probably shares a lot in common with others living in central Florida at this time – the economic outlook there is fairly bleak.

      • wordsalad2009
        November 2, 2013 at 3:18 PM

        Yeah, it’s already aired, and I missed seeing it myself. I didn’t see video for it on IE’s website, nor at YouTube, but that don’t mean it ain’t out there somewhere, or won’t be at some future time.

        I suspect Maddy was the major family breadwinner, so with six kids, things are pretty grim financially right now.

  137. wordsalad2009
    November 2, 2013 at 10:21 AM

    I stumbled across some interesting information the other day at glassdoor dot com. It was a review from an employee of Digital Risk in Maitland, FL:

    Glassdoor Review 20120605

    Jun 5, 2012
    Forensic Loan Review Analyst…
    I have been working at Digital Risk full-time for more than a year
    Pros – $25 an hour to start plus lots of OT

    That’s over $50,000 a year. Not rich, but shouldn’t be starving, either.

    • wordsalad2009
      November 2, 2013 at 3:48 PM

      I just noticed that the URL I supplied in comment #5315 is ‘broken.’ Here’s a working one for those who haven’t already figured out how to do surgery to fix the broken one:

      glassdoor dot com reviews(scroll down to see specific review)

      • wordsalad2009
        November 3, 2013 at 11:32 AM

        Returning to the subject of GZ’s finances:

        In February 2012, he presumably was making wages similar to the contemporary glassdoor reviewer with the same job title ($25 per hour, 50K+ per year).

        Per City-Data dot com, that would have put GZ above the median pay for Sanford, FL:

        City-Data for Sanford, FL

        How is it that Mr. “Frugal” appeared to be broke, and how did this affect his mindset on the evening of February 26, 2012?

        *speculation*

        *Broke, and it was close to the first of the next month when many bills (like residential rent) typically fall due.

        *Still smarting from the public praise heaped on a contractor earlier that same month for his assistance in the apprehension of a burglary suspect at the Retreat.

        *Fresh from a communication (18:48) with an allegedly semi-estranged and absent wife.

        *Recorded in his Non-Emergency Number police call as muttering a vulgar complaint (“These assholes, they always get away”), and a racial slur (“F*cking coons”).

        *Slurred speech and monumentally poor direction-giving skills. We’ll never know what chemicals might have been coursing through GZ’s veins that evening–they did toxicology testing on the killed, but not the killer.

        On so many levels, GZ ‘needed’ to apprehend someone, and young, black, male TM had the terrible luck to be a pedestrian at the Retreat at the exact moment that a desperate GZ took to the streets with a loaded gun and attitude.

        • wordsalad2009
          November 3, 2013 at 7:27 PM

          And of course, none of this explains why GZ felt he ‘needed’ to kill TM.

          The most facile explanation is ‘self-defense,’ but I don’t buy it.

          *more speculation*

          GZ’s stories about being choked, having his head relentlessly pounded on the cement, et cetera, just don’t match the evidence (the voices heard in the background of the 911 calls, the two small lacerations on the back of his head).

          Did GZ panic? If so, why then the single shot? Why not empty the magazine? No, panic seems unlikely.

          Was GZ angry? Yes, very possibly. Here was this young “asshole,” this “f*cking coon” who had the effrontery not to acquiesce in the face of GZ’s ‘authority.’ TM not only ‘forced’ GZ to chase him, but once confronted, he wouldn’t simply fall to his knees, and confess that he had indeed been up to ‘no good.’ Instead, TM tried to get away, and ‘forced’ GZ into a wrestling match in which the latter sustained minor physical injuries, and more substantial ones to his ego. Mr. Anger Management lost it, and killed TM.

          Or, GZ suddenly realized that he’d way exceeded the bonds of his authority (he had none, really) in persistently following, confronting, interrogating, and physically assaulting a teenager who was simply on his way home. In realizing this, GZ coldly decided to silence forever the only full witness to his poor judgment.

          Or, GZ finally acted on something that had been scurrying around the corners of his brain for a long time (ever since he heard the story from an ex-cop coworker about having had to kill someone in the line of duty): the urge to kill someone. He calculated (incorrectly) that no one would question too deeply a Neighborhood Watch captain (and ‘friend’ of the force) killing some young, black kid in a hoodie. This scenario is the most cold-blooded one.

        • unitron
          November 3, 2013 at 8:51 PM

          You know what they say about talking to yourself…

          : – )

  138. wordsalad2009
    November 3, 2013 at 9:06 PM

    unitron :
    You know what they say about talking to yourself…
    : – )

    No what? };-)

    And–how would this be germane to our conversation?
    (Made ya look, made ya look!)

    • wassointeresting
      November 3, 2013 at 9:28 PM

      You made me look and distracted me from my own conversation between me, myself and I.

      • wordsalad2009
        November 3, 2013 at 9:41 PM

        Yeah, talking to yourself is for amateurs. Pros not only talk to themselves, they argue. Ya win some, ya lose some…

    • unitron
      November 3, 2013 at 9:51 PM

      I got a notification email that said

      “wordsalad2009 commented on Broken thread conspiracy theory :-).

      in response to wordsalad2009: “,

      hence my remark about talking to oneself.

      • wordsalad2009
        November 3, 2013 at 10:01 PM

        Hence my remarks about pros. };-)

        Dude, you have email notification for every comment made? I couldn’t do that; it would distract me from my conversation with me, myself, and I.

        One of these days whonoze might get sick of it, and boot me outta here, but it ain’t happened yet.

        • wassointeresting
          November 3, 2013 at 10:57 PM

          Theory: wordsalad is unitron’s alterego.

        • unitron
          November 3, 2013 at 11:09 PM

          “Theory: wordsalad is unitron’s alterego.”

          I’m not sure which of us should be more insulted.

          : – )

        • wassointeresting
          November 4, 2013 at 2:34 AM

          I think you both should be equally so. I’ll leave you two to duke it out. You’ll know that my theory is true if you ever wake up with unexplained bruises from fighting with yourself when your inner struggle gets out of hand.

  139. wordsalad2009
    November 4, 2013 at 10:59 AM

    wassointeresting :
    I think you both should be equally so. I’ll leave you two to duke it out. You’ll know that my theory is true if you ever wake up with unexplained bruises from fighting with yourself when your inner struggle gets out of hand.

    Heh! Sorry I missed this exchange last night. I have to take some play out of the cat before I retire for the night, otherwise the crepuscular creature takes some play out of me–during the wee hours.

  140. wordsalad2009
    November 4, 2013 at 2:11 PM

    Cashill has his yap open again, this time about juror B-29 (Maddy):

    American ‘Thinker’ 20131104

    Cashill says that “Although the public was told repeatedly that there were no blacks on the six-woman jury, the Puerto Rican Maddy is clearly of African descent.”

    I remember B-29 during the jury selection process describing herself as being of “mixed” race.

    Cashill also says, “Many on the left who followed the trial did not appreciate Maddy’s judiciousness.”

    “[J]udiciousness.” Well, I certainly didn’t appreciate Maddy’s role in acquitting GZ of all charges, but I suspect that she was manipulated and bullied by possible ringer juror B-37 (among others, that is).

    Cashill describes the media:

    Dishonest to the end…

    Yeah, like looking in a mirror, ain’t it, Jack?

  141. wordsalad2009
    November 5, 2013 at 8:26 PM

    Sanford, FL seems to be ‘softening’ in their approach to Neighborhood Watch reform:

    Los Angeles Times 20131102

    At a community meeting in Sanford on Tuesday, Smith will formally announce changes to the city’s neighborhood watch program, including background checks for all volunteers, a six-week training program for block captains and monitoring by the Police Department. The department also will recommend that program volunteers not be armed while in the streets.

    “[R]ecommend.”

    Well, at least they’ll be doing background checks, and training.

    Would a background check have eliminated GZ? *shrug*

  142. wordsalad2009
    November 6, 2013 at 7:16 PM

    Is this the next chapter in an attempt by Mark O’Mara to rehabilitate his image?:

    O’Mara Law Blog 20131106

    Why Gun-rights Advocates Should Support Modifying “Stand Your Ground”
    …Now the question is this: under the “stand your ground” laws, are people getting away with something? Maybe sometimes. I think some people are making irresponsible decisions when using their firearms, and they may be receiving legal and civil immunity under existing “stand your ground” laws.

    Not to mention under more ordinary self-defense laws, Bub.

  143. wordsalad2009
    November 7, 2013 at 10:52 AM

    I found this to be an interesting piece on Sanford’s Neighborhood Watch/Citizens on Patrol programs in the wake of GZ killing TM:

    Daily Beast 20131106

    Whatever they do, I hope they’ll be able to weed out people like GZ.

  144. wordsalad2009
    November 7, 2013 at 12:00 PM

    Cashill is at it again:

    World Net Daily 20131106

    The piece is chock-full of quotable lines/ideas (and not because they’re good).

    So as not to piss off wordpress, I’ll limit myself to these ones:

    By Monday, April 2, 2012, FBI agents were already in Florida questioning individuals in an Orwellian “parallel investigation” that focused less on Zimmerman’s actions that fateful night than on his thoughts, past and present.

    Did he really say “coon” on his call to the dispatcher? Had he ever told a racial joke? Were the suspicious persons he reported to the police disproportionately black? In contemporary America, words often mattered more than action.

    Cashill seems threatened by the possibility that the feds will decide GZ did say “F*cking coons,” and I can only hope he’s right in this one thing.

    Why? Because a scant five minutes after making what sounded like a racial slur against African Americans, GZ took careful aim (per his own statements), and put a bullet through the heart of an unarmed seventeen year old African American (TM).

    Five minutes ago IS the past, but it’s pretty recent past in my book.

  145. wordsalad2009
    November 7, 2013 at 10:24 PM

    Oh, nice. Witness #13 Jonathan Manalo sat down with The Grio’s Joy-Ann Reid at MSNBC’s studio and told her about an incident in November (presumably 2011) in which GZ had his firearm drawn in broad daylight apparently because he found Manalo’s United Parcel Service coworker (who had stepped away from his big, brown company truck) “suspicious”:

    MSNBC 20131010

    • unitron
      November 7, 2013 at 10:29 PM

      Do you have a link for part 1?

      • wordsalad2009
        November 7, 2013 at 10:40 PM

        This is supposed to be it, but I haven’t watched it yet myself:

        MSNBC20131010 (Manalo Interview Part One)

        One of your cohorts at AnnetteK’s blog linked them over there, but another doesn’t believe the UPS story…

        • November 9, 2013 at 5:13 PM

          Did I hear that right? JM says he took the two pix of TM face down & the flashlight on the grass while police was there, and GZ was being taken away.
          Isn’t it that at the time GZ was being taken away by TS, I believe RA & AR were keeping TM’s body at gun point.
          Thanks Wordsalad for keeping n eye on the case.

      • wassointeresting
        November 8, 2013 at 7:37 AM
        • wordsalad2009
          November 8, 2013 at 9:28 AM

          Thanks for the correction; I was having technical difficulties last night, and failed to notice that I’d linked P2 twice.

    • wassointeresting
      November 8, 2013 at 7:13 AM

      I thought Jonathan (or Joe, as he likes to be called) didn’t know GZ. That’s what I recall anyway from listening to his recorded statements.

    • wassointeresting
      November 8, 2013 at 7:38 AM

      Never mind, I see you mentioned that it was Manalo’s coworker who had the encounter.

  146. wordsalad2009
    November 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM

    Manalo’s got a book on his witness experience at Amazon:

    With a Flashlight and a Cell Phone…MY TRUTH

    There’s a reader’s review (highly critical, from an evident GZ supporter) that seems like it might rival Manalo’s book (Kindle Edition approximately 13 pages) for length.

  147. wordsalad2009
    November 8, 2013 at 12:01 PM

    Some readers of “Guns & Ammo” magazine are outraged by a column written by contributing editor Dick Metcalf:

    Yahoo 20131107

    In the column, Metcalf argued that gun owners can no longer hide behind the Second Amendment.

    ‘Way too many gun owners still seem to believe that any regulation of the right to keep and bear arms is an infringement,’ contributing editor Metcalf wrote in a column titled ‘Let’s Talk Limits.’ ‘The fact is, all constitutional rights are regulated, always have been, and need to be.’

    Sounds right to me. The First Amendment safeguards the right to free speech, but that doesn’t include frivolously yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theater.

  148. wordsalad2009
    November 9, 2013 at 10:17 AM

    I did some more thinking about Jonathan Manalo’s allegation that GZ displayed a firearm in response to seeing a United Parcel Service deliveryman performing his job.

    If true, that probably was a misdemeanor crime right there:

    Jon H. Gutmacher, Esq.

    I checked the “Mother Jones” PDF of GZ’s police calls, and he doesn’t appear to have called law enforcement anywhere in that time frame (November 2011).

    Manalo says that the UPS guy informed his management.

    I do wonder about the particulars of this alleged incident…

  149. wordsalad2009
    November 9, 2013 at 10:54 AM

    Questions that come to mind:

    How did this incident come to Manalo’s attention?

    If GZ didn’t call the police, did some other resident call GZ?

    Was the UPS delivery man in uniform?

    What was the ethnicity of the UPS delivery man?

    What did the UPS delivery man’s management have to say on the subject?

    • November 9, 2013 at 5:31 PM

      JM says that the incident was reported to is manager. So, it tells me two things:
      1) It must be records or at least witness (the manager) of the incident at UPS,
      2) It probably is via UPS hierarchy that JM was informed of it.

      • wordsalad2009
        November 9, 2013 at 6:08 PM

        Well, yeah, in a company the size of UPS, I would think something like that would get formally documented.

        And yes, it seems likely that the manager is the one who informed Manalo. I wonder if it was a “This is just between you and me and the wall,” kind of conversation.

        I can kind of understand Manalo’s colleagues (manager and delivery man) not wanting to get involved, but right now, insofar as I can tell, it’s just hearsay from Manalo.

        If the incident was real, they need to come forward. You know, unless they want to wait until GZ kills someone else, and have that on their conscience.

  150. wordsalad2009
    November 9, 2013 at 4:26 PM

    For those who care, a copy of SZ’s divorce petition, electronically filed by lawyer Kelly Sims, and recorded by the Seminole County Clerk of Courts (copy courtesy of Click Orlando):

    Click Orlando PDF 27 Pages

  151. wordsalad2009
    November 9, 2013 at 4:46 PM

    I’m still face-palming myself about Manalo’s UPS story. Apparently, that interview was done around October 10th this year, but I personally only became aware of it a couple of days ago. I haven’t found any press interest in it, other than Reid’s original interview.

    Do the feds know about the UPS incident?

    I believe that the deadline to file any federal charges is within a two year window of the incident (in this case, homicide). If so, that’s only 110 more days, including today, and February 26, 2014:

    Time and Date Dot Com

  152. wordsalad2009
    November 9, 2013 at 5:41 PM

    tchoupicaillou :
    Did I hear that right? JM says he took the two pix of TM face down & the flashlight on the grass while police was there, and GZ was being taken away.
    Isn’t it that at the time GZ was being taken away by TS, I believe RA & AR were keeping TM’s body at gun point.
    Thanks Wordsalad for keeping n eye on the case.

    Tchoupi,

    You are more than welcome, considering the staggering amount of work you’ve done on the case.

    I’m not sure about the details of what Manalo had to say about February 26, 2012 in the Reid interview (as opposed to his previous statements and testimony), because I’ve been so focused on his UPS story.

    Poster “Yahtzee” transcribed the first part of the interview on BlackButterfly’s blog:

    Transcription of Part One of the Reid Interview with Manalo

    BTW, if you found the MSNBC videos of the interview ‘balky,’ there are now YouTube versions, courtesy of “3chicspolitico.”

    (Sorry about the lack of linkage; I’m trying to avoid multiple links in a single thread because that requires whonoze’s intervention.)

    • wordsalad2009
      November 9, 2013 at 5:44 PM

      3chicspolitico’s YouTube Channel:

      • wordsalad2009
        November 9, 2013 at 5:52 PM

        Oh crud, with my lack of HTML skills, I’ll have the thread fouled any minute now:

        Part One of Manalo’s Interview by Reid, courtesy of 3chicspolitico’s Youtube channel:

  153. wordsalad2009
    November 9, 2013 at 5:54 PM

    Part Two of Manalo’s interview by Reid, courtesy of 3chicspolitico’s YouTube channel:

  154. wordsalad2009
    November 9, 2013 at 10:55 PM

    @ tchoupi,

    From Yahtzee’s transcription on the blackbutterfly blog:

    REID: And, you also photographed the body.

    MANALO: Yes. After, the police had left with George Zimmerman, I went ahead and took a couple of photos.

    REID: About how long was it before the police arrived?

    MANALO: It wasn’t very long….between 5 and 10 seconds.

    Per Manalo, it sounds like there was a very brief gap in there between GZ being escorted away (presumably by Tim Smith), and other officers’ arrival.

    That’s at odds with others’ recollection, but it might help explain why, per Amsterdam’s reading of the various witnesses’ statements, Smith didn’t mention Manalo in his report, but Santiago mentioned an ‘unauthorized’ person on-scene (who he initially described as “white,” but later as “oriental”).

    Then too, there may be a difference being on-scene, and being ‘right there.’

  155. wordsalad2009
    November 10, 2013 at 8:34 PM

    @ tchoupi,

    I went back to the statements, and it does seem odd to say the least that Tim Smith didn’t mention Manalo in his statement, because according to the latter, GZ was being handcuffed while having the “Call my wife” conversation.

    As to the photos, in the Witness #13 composite statement at Screamin’ Jay’s site:

    Screamin’ Jay

    I don’t know why I didn’t remember until just now. I apologize. I took only these three photos with my cell phone. I deleted them off my phone. And I put them on my laptop.

  156. wordsalad2009
    November 11, 2013 at 8:34 AM

    A transcription of Part Two of Joy-Ann Reid’s interview with Witness #13, Jonathan Manalo, courtesy of poster Yahtzee at the blackbutterfly blog:

    blackbutterfly blog

    MANALO: Before the shooting…3 or 4 months before the actual shooting. He was just…one of the biggest trucks that we have…..daylight….he knocks on the door so the driver can just leave it at the door….and he walks back to his truck.

    When he turns around, George Zimmerman is just standing there with his gun in his hand, and then just says, “Oh, I didn’t know who it was.” But, clearly, there’s a big, brown truck in front of your house with a UPS logo on it…and you don’t know who it is. It kind of makes you wonder what his mind was thinking at that moment.

  157. November 11, 2013 at 3:32 PM
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