Home > Uncategorized > Let’s make an SPD file!

Let’s make an SPD file!

The purpose of this thread is to collect everything we know or can find out about the SPD officers and State officials who responded to the Trayvon Martin shooting, WITH CITATIONS of sources! I’m talking about Timothy Smith, Ricardo Ayala, Michael Wagner, Jonathan Mead, Bill Lee and Norm Wolfinger (did I forget anyone?) The purpose, of course, is to compile evidence relating to a possible police cover-up in support of George Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense. I’m not so much interested in Chris Serino or Doris Singleton, except as their reports or statements reflect on the actions of the others, and the timing of those actions.

For example, IIRC, it was reported somewhere that Smith’s initial report did not include the language about GZ having a wet grass stained back, and he revised the report to include this, but also IIRC the earliest written report from Smith in the discovery docs does contain this wording. So what’s the source for the report on the earlier version of his report?

All the posts in this thread should either pose (hopefully) answerable questions about these folks, and/or answers to those questions with some sort of documentation. General discussion of the case should continue on the general thread(s).

More ‘for example’s: what evidence exists that Robert Z Sr. may have known Wolfinger from their days at the Pentagon? What are the specifics of Wolfinger’s involvement in the decision not to charge GZ? IIRC there are reports he was at the scene at RATL, but he claims those reports are false. Someone else from his office may have been there, or he merely may have been contacted. But what are the who and when?

Did GZ have a prior relationship with Lee? Had they met?

Yada, Yada. I think you get the idea.

Over at the Leatherman Lounge,on MLK day I posted a YouTube of Bob Dylan (nee Zimmerman) singing ‘The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carrol,” and not one person made a comment. Do none of them know the song, or are none of them curious enough to listen to a 7 minute clip, or are they just uninterested in a protest song from the Civil Rights struggle that suggests  the individual well-connected racist criminal is far less worrisome than the racist justice system that lets him off with a slap on the wrist?

William Zanzinger killed poor Hattie Carroll
With a cane that he twirled around his diamond ringed finger
At a Baltimore hotel society gath’rin’
And the cops were called in and his weapon took from him
As they rode him in custody down to the station
And booked William Zanzinger for first-degree murder
But you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears
Take the rag away from your face
Now ain’t the time for your tears.

William Zanzinger who had twenty-four years
Owns a tobacco farm of six hundred acres
With rich wealthy parents who provide and protect him
And high office relations in the politics of Maryland
Reacted to his deed with a shrug of his shoulders
And swear words and sneering and his tongue it was a’ snarling
And in a matter of minutes on bail was out walking
But you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears
Take the rag away from your face
Now ain’t the time for your tears.

Hattie Carroll was a maid in the kitchen
She was fifty-one years old and gave birth to ten children
Who carried the dishes and took out the garbage
And never sat once at the head of the table
And didn’t even talk to the people at the table
Who just cleaned up all the food from the table
And emptied the ashtrays on the whole lower level
Got killed by a blow, lay slain by a cane
That sailed through the air and came down through the room
Doomed and determined to destroy all the gentle
And she never done nothin’ to William Zanzinger
And you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears
Take the rag away from your face
Now ain’t the time for your tears.

In the courtroom of honor, the judge pounded his gavel
To show that all’s equal and that the courts are on the level
And that the strings in the books ain’t pulled and persuaded
And that even the nobles get properly handled
Once that the cops have chased after and caught ’em
And that ladder of law has no top and no bottom
Stared at the person who killed for no reason
Who just happened to be feelin’ that way without warnin’
And he spoke through his cloak, most deep and distinguished
And handed out strongly, for penalty and repentance
William Zanzinger with a six-month sentence
Ah, but you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears
Bury the rag deep in your face
For now’s the time for your tears.

So this thread is not about the contemporary Zanzinger, but the ladder of law in Seminole County, and exactly who made up the rungs, how and when.

Categories: Uncategorized
  1. January 23, 2013 at 8:57 AM

    Glad to see this thread. I’d like to begin by pointing out that there is no evidence to show that the DoJ or any other credible outside agency ever conducted a full investigation of the SPD or Norm Wolfinger’s involvement in the killing of Trayvon Martin.

    A common misconception surrounds this point, since the DoJ dd get involved on a superficial level, and many assumed this confirms that a full investigation of the inns workings of the SPD took place. IMO there is little to no evidence of this “full investigation.” Attorney general Eric Holder announced his departments involvement with specific language regarding a look into the question of whether George Zimmerman violated Trayvon Martin’s civil rights, and he said nothing about a look into how the SPD or Norm Wolfinger handled the case. AFAICT there have been no news reports or leaks to the press regarding files being searched, investigators or administrators being questioned about the department’s actions and potential corruption, racial bias or incompetence / not following proceedures.

    The major action I see evidence of is that the DoJ THREATENED federal action if the state of Florida wasn’t going to take action, and that in the wake of the governor appointing a special prosecutor they “pulled” thier punch and restrcited their involvement to a superficial level. The Community Relations Services ended up being the “tip of rhe spear” and these people are not investigators.

    The FBI got involved again on a superficial level in making themselves available and even staging a photo op sending jacketed agents into the R@TL on one occasion but no one from the SPD ever received a subpoena, retained a lawyer prior to federal questioning or saw their file cabinets and hard drives wheeled away in a rented truck with a fed at the wheel.

    It’s true that such an investigation may have been warranted and that the outrage existed to signal a public demand for such but where is the evidence it ever took place?

    In general such actions take place under the radar and emerge after the state presents it’s case, but those who expect the cavalry to ride in and clean house may be sadly disappointed.

    One poster on the leatheman blog claims a telephone conversation with a DoJ employee confirms an investigation of the SPD took place but I’m skeptical since there’s no evidence. I’d welcome any information with sources that anyone has to indicate the Feds truly investigated the SPD and Norm Wolfinger’s involvement into this case.

  2. January 23, 2013 at 12:49 PM


  3. blushedbrown
    January 23, 2013 at 8:44 PM

    sounds like fun! will start digging!

  4. bgesq
    January 23, 2013 at 11:12 PM

    follow please

  5. leander22
    February 1, 2013 at 7:46 PM

    Thanks blushedbrown, for reminding me of this blog. I must have been here before, quite some time ago, but I completely forgot. It’s late over here, so only something from the top of my head. I have the feeling that in the earliest time frame there was no on duty supervisor on scene Please note I haven’t completely checked it yet, but it puzzles me.

    For example, IIRC, it was reported somewhere that Smith’s initial report did not include the language about GZ having a wet grass stained back, and he revised the report to include this, but also IIRC the earliest written report from Smith in the discovery docs does contain this wording. So what’s the source for the report on the earlier version of his report?

    Whonoze, I have never heard about it, and it seems unlikely to me, if you look at the larger document context. But, both Smith and Ayala’s reports were modified by Stacie McCoy, the on scene supervisor that night. As far as I remember no other reports were modified. The only possibility would be that he wrote one earlier and then wrote a completely different one later. It’s late and I do not have time to make this visually easy to grasp, or well structured.

    Go to the second discovery were you find some radio exchanges between officers. E.g you find the attempts by Ayala to get a device for taking fingerprints.

    The exchange between Smith and McCoys must be on page 181-182. If my notes are correct. You will see that she asks him to write the report before he had some days of. He then sends the message back, he is finished and whoever wants to add whatever can do so.

    On the top of the original reports you find the Mod/By and Mod/Date. None of the other exchanges feel particularly interesting to me. On the other hand we only have a selection of them.

    We only know she modified, we obviously don’t know what . I have never heard that officer Smith added these details only later. In any case the time logs on the radio exchange and the time logged on the documents contradict it. If anybody, only McCoy could have done it. And strictly changed suggests to me after a while. And not while writing it.

    If I may stay with Stacie McCoy. In 7th discovery documents starting page 12 you find these times for Stacie McCoy S 0102,

    DIS: 19:17:52 ENR19:17:52 ARV 19:41:01 CL 20:56:25
    arrival on page 13 bottom

    For whatever reason Stacie McCoy claims to have been involved in CPR (first discovery p. 17), and calming down the teacher (second discovery, p. 10 where she also states to have been involved in CPR)

    In any case we have the arrival time of Fire and Rescue on scene, and everything surrounding fire and rescue times, plus declaration of death. Even if she initially forgot to report her arrival, why does this take so long. Was she so busy on the scene that she completely forgot about it even after? Or was she indeed late and tried to cover up the initial chaos on the crime scene.

    Good night Whonze

  6. leander22
    February 1, 2013 at 7:46 PM

    sorry, saw it too late, Whonoze, of course. 😉

  7. leander22
    February 1, 2013 at 8:32 PM

    One poster on the leatheman blog claims a telephone conversation with a DoJ employee confirms an investigation of the SPD took place but I’m skeptical since there’s no evidence.

    Whonoze, that’s Malisha I think. I had forgotten to book a ticket, before switching of my laptop and this is still open.

    • February 8, 2013 at 5:55 PM

      Right leanader22, that was Malisha and she is a dedicated researcher. I wasn’t trying to impeach her recall of the telephone call so much as I was saying, in spite of what she HEARD she was given no evidence to show a credible wide-ranging investigation was ongoing.

      To my knowledge the DoJ’s Eric Holder announced that the DoJ was moving to see if George Zimmerman violated Trayvon Martin’s civil rights and that he was sending in the CRS to calm the waters and making available the services of the FBI to the ongoing investigation by then new Angela Corey’s team. He NEVER said words to the effect of, “we’re going to investigate the Sanford Police Department and/or Norm Wolfinger, here come the subpeonas, send out the rental trucks to load up the files and hard drives and bring them to FBI HQ.” For him to have done so would have overstepped the bounds of “how things work” and he would have been deliberately going over the head of the state’s machine as represented by the governor, who is a Republican by the way.

      In essence, it was a “pulled punch” in political terms. Because of the outrage generated by 2 million people signing petitions and thousands protesting peacefully in many cities, the Obama DoJ was prepared to go all the way – send in the Feds to clean up a southern backwater – but because the governor DID act to set up a special prosecutor, the full implied threat was never carried out. Keep in mind this was an election year in a battleground state. So in the end the message was, “we all care, the feds and the governor, so rest assured we’ll get to the bottom of all this and the dirtbag will go to prison. Just don’t expect anyone on the state or city payroll to be investigated.”

      The general scandal and poor showing of SPD Police chief Bill Lee meant he had to go for appearances sake. And go he did, kicking a screaming all the way. Wolfinger himself quietly announced he wouldn’t seek re-election so he could “spend more time with his family,” who presumably are all fully grown and moved off and married. In essence, the elected and appointed people who outraged two million Americans got away relatively scott free in exchange for political cover for the administrations of both DC and Florida, and of course, making sure the dirtbag killer of a unarmed teenager got a serious prosecution by a motivated team.

      Some see this exchange as one that worked to protect the Stand Your Ground laws but I am not sure I would go that far. In my mind the people (2 million strong) spoke and the powers that be realized they had to act like they agreed or else they would be on the wrong side of history. In my mind the stupidity of the SYG laws have barely been addressed.

      Keep in mind this is all one person’s opinion however. YMMV

      • leander22
        March 7, 2013 at 9:09 AM

        Exquisite response, Willis Newton. Sounds very convincing to me. Sorry, I didn’t notice this before.

        Concerning the upcoming election which I followed late at night over here, as I do for several years now. I somehow wondered if the case influenced the election at least somehow.

        Learned a new phrase too, I hope I can keep it in mind. Pull a punch, seems easy to misread without knowledge of its origin. Thanks.

  8. leander22
    February 1, 2013 at 8:59 PM

    What are the specifics of Wolfinger’s involvement in the decision not to charge GZ? IIRC there are reports he was at the scene at RATL, but he claims those reports are false.

    If I may add something. I heard and read about that rumor too. But hesitant about it. For the simple reason that the log shows that Serino (that’s again 7th discovery, page 12f, seems to show that Serino is contacted to call: KELLY JO HINES

    see entry on page 12, activity starting with the line at
    in the next line also under REM 1039D KELLY JO HINES

    If he was on scene, would this still need to happen? Would the order to call Hines be sent via this channel. I would assume that in that case Wolfinger had told to contact the on duty supervisor and inform her. But I may be completely wrong. No doubt he could have called and informed her and she in return demanded specific information.

    But strictly I tend more towards rumor. This is where I stumbled across it. And maybe Joy-Ann Reid is one of the people in contact with someone spreading this information. But notice the way it is put is vague and Joy Ann Read qualifies it by saying. If this all is true.

    below from the article, you can also listen to Roy-Ann Read in the video on the site.

    A source with knowledge of the investigation into the shooting of Trayvon Martin tells theGrio that it was then Sanford police chief Bill Lee, along with Capt. Robert O’Connor, the investigations supervisor, who made the decision to release George Zimmerman on the night of February 26th, after consulting with State Attorney Norman Wolfinger — in person.

    Wolfinger’s presence at the scene or at the police department in the night of a shooting would be unusual, according to the source. On a typical case, police contact the state attorney’s office and speak with an on duty assistant state attorney; they either discuss the matter by phone or the on duty assistant state attorney comes to the crime scene – but rarely the state attorney him or herself.

    Strictly Wolfinger could have been at SPD and told them case closed, everything fine. But would Serino then have stayed at SPD till 03:07:09, when he seems to leave (CL). Is it likely there was a discussion that took that long?

    so, now I have my ticket and am really tired. Besides it’s late.

  9. February 10, 2013 at 7:41 PM

    I’m posting from a mobile device at the moment but before I forget I want to mention that any discussion of the SPD needs to have as background a reference to the New York Times article about “police missteps” and also the follow up piece in “the lede” that clarifies and corrects a few things.

  10. February 10, 2013 at 7:47 PM

    Here is the reader’s questions section:


    and here is an important quote from that piece:

    Q: One of the important elements of this case is Norman Wolfinger’s “unspecified conflict of interest.” In other words, what is his relationship to George Zimmerman?
    – MS from New York

    That is an excellent question. Mr. Wolfinger, the original prosecutor in the case, has declined to be interviewed to explain what this conflict of interest may be and to answer other questions. And Governor Scott has also turned down requests for an interview to discuss what he knows about the conflict of interest, and how and why he chose Ms. Corey to take over the case.

    • leander22
      March 7, 2013 at 9:51 AM

      Thanks too, for that. Interesting angle, suggestive indeed. Slipped my mind, if I ever paid attention. I remember having read his press releases, they may well contain it. Yes, true, why would he put it this way?

      Adding to the rumor mill: Maybe there is a military link with RZ sen or links via his magistrate job. Strictly I wondered about such connection of a former military intelligence man, ardent Zimmerman supporter who worked for the department of defense too, a blogger on US politics, foreign policy, the military, who made me aware of the case. … Suggesting here, yes I agree the statement is odd, and there may be something there.

  11. February 10, 2013 at 8:21 PM

    Here is the NYT article about “police missteps” by Serge F Kovaleski.


    It’s important to note a few things: One, that even though this was the New York Times and a Pulitzer prize winning journalist doing the reporting, Norm Wolfinger refused to be interviewed for the article.

    Two, SPD officials spoke both formally and informally (aka without being named) to the reporter. It’s unknown who the anonymous sources were for the small peek inside the SPD the article provides.

    I think it’s a well written, well researched article and the thing that strikes me about it all is that “is this is as close as the NYT can get, there needs to be a credible outside investigation here.” Of course there is none. So articles like this are about as close as we are likely to ever get, and no major insider is leaking to the press about what went on in the SPD, and no one at all inside Wolfinger’s office is opening up to the press. These people have plenty to hide IMO. What they are hiding however can’t be rooted out without subpoenas and offers of immunity for some and serious threats of prosecution for wrongdoing for others.

    IMO the fact that the State of Florida now charges M2 where the SPD and Norm Wolfinger thought the case should essentially be dropped means that they are either corrupt, racially biased or incompetent. And any combination of any of those conclusions is reason for a serious investigation.

  12. February 14, 2013 at 12:00 PM

    Worth noting: a new book on the forensic evidence, written by a Florida detective and sometime expert witness. It appears the book tries to “stay neutral” most likely in the hop e of selling more copies that way.

    Local Channel six produces a fairly coherent news piece about the book and the author seems credible and fairly hard working. As far as what is presented in the TV piece, his opinions on the case are not going to be news to most of us, but maybe he presents some good material inside the book… This is his chosen field and he’s got a lot more experience in LE than I do, having spent the majority of my life in its’ flagrant disregard, lol.

    It’s also a decent preview of what the prosecution MAY present at trail as far as the conclusions of their own investigation.

    Among his assumptions are that TM ran from a position near the T, and that GZ also ran or jogged towards the T. These are reasonable assumptions but assumptions nonetheless. No one knows for certain where he parked or where he moved once he exited his car.

    He also claims the bullet holes and stipple strongly suggest that TM was atop GZ and the gap between shirts was aprox 3 inches due to gravity. ( The same gap could also be formed by someone pulling on the hoodie with their other hand…. duh.)

    Notable in the channel six report are two new-to-me shots of the crime scene on the night of the killing, one showing the “pseudo ridgeline” i think, and the other that may have included the body were it not so improperly exposed. I’m glad they are pulling out this “b-roll” crime scene footage from the files and hope this trend continues.

    I’ll be curious to see what else is in this book, entitled “Intermediate Range, The Forensic Evidence in the Killing of Trayvon Martin” by Michael Knox.

    • February 25, 2013 at 12:49 AM

      Knox’ analysis that the hoodie was three inches away from Trayvon’s chest when the shot seems quite persuasive. Gravity would be the most likely explanation if there wasn’t other evidence to the contrary, but there is. W18 is sure the guy she saw on top was the the person who got up, and she was watching as the shot went off. But it’s possible that GZ rolled over on top of TM after the shot, and W18 missed seeing that in the dark. Then there’s the gravity evidence of the blood trails running forward on GZ’s head. He could not have been on his back when that blood dripped. It’s possible, I suppose, that the two men were rolling around quite a bit — that GZ got his cuts rolling over the broken utility cover, then he got on top for awhile as the blood ran down, and by the time Trayvon somehow managed a reversal the wounds had stopped bleeding. In the News 6 story anyway, Knox also doesn’t account for the fact that there’s Trayvon’s blood on GZ’s clothes. If Trayvon had been horizontal enough for his hoodie to sag down, you’d think he’d bleed down after getting shot through the heart. And of course, the hoodie could have been pulled away as willis says. The fact Knox takes none of these things into account, and goes straight to his ‘Trayvon had to be on top’ conclusion doesn’t exactly speak to a rigorous consideration of all the evidence IMHO.

      Knox’ book is on Amazon for $14.34: http://tinyurl.com/audkltw. The Amazon ‘preview’ shows the bibliography, which lists among the sources consulted the weather reports from the Sanford airport. I guess Knox didn’t check to see that there were at least two measuring weather stations closer to RATL, nor consider that the topography at the airport might be different enough from a residential area to affect things like wind readings. So it’s not screaming “Buy me!” to me. Of course the Z-fans are hating the book because the (tasteless, IMHO) mockup of the death scene on the cover shows a can of Arizona Iced Tea, not Arizona Watermelon Drink.

      • leander22
        March 7, 2013 at 10:56 AM

        good points, Whonoze. I wasn’t aware of your exchanges here.

        When I became aware of the book, maybe even before I read it I wondered what made him change his mind between May and October:

        So the muzzle was in contact with the clothing, but the medical examiner said that the shot was fired from ‘intermediate range’. How is the pistol touching the clothing while being at least four inches or more from the skin? Newly released video of Martin making his purchase at a nearby convenience store shortly before the shooting shows that the clothing is loose fitting. In order for there to be this much distance between the clothes and the skin, one of two things had to happen: either (1) the clothing was being pulled away from Martin’s body (presumably by George Zimmerman) or (2) Martin was on top of Zimmerman, chest downward, with his clothes hanging due to gravity.

        Beyond that, his selectivity makes me slightly suspicious elsewhere. .Just as he occasionally seems to loose his narrational distance to GZ.

        • March 8, 2013 at 8:54 AM

          The basic problem with “gravity drooping” of the garments is that not only would both garments have to droop in unison, because the holes in them match one another, but the location of the holes in the garments, while resting on the body, are 4 to 5 inches away from the wound in the body. Meaning that the garments had to be pulled so as to stretch them over the location where the shot entered the body.

          The direction and magnitude of the force needed to stretch the garments, so that the holes are directly over the wound, indicates that a hand was holding and pulling the garments while another hand was aiming and operating the gun.

          This is an inescapable conclusion. So, GZ has a handful of clothing in one hand while he’s controlling, aiming and operating his weapon with the other. Proves that he was not indeed, defending himself from a potentially lethal attack at the time he fired the shot. Because, at the time he fired the shot, he was the only one in control of a deadly weapon. Trayvon was without a deadly weapon. So, unless GZ can convince someone that Trayvon’s bare hands were somehow lethal, he’s toast!
          |||=> Tick Tock! <-|||

  13. February 24, 2013 at 6:42 PM

    @willisnewton RE: the possibility of an investigation into civil rights violations by the SPD; I think I read in the 2nd dump of FBI interviews there seemed to be specific commentary about minority relations (race and sex) within the department. I tend to believe those were part of an investigation into the SPD that may have taken place. No link, sorry.

    • March 1, 2013 at 1:12 PM

      Thanks manberk, but i think that may be related to the CRS portion of the FBI’s brief involvement with the case. That’s “community relations” division and not the investigative branch of the FBI. It’s worth looking at more closely however.

      The FBI sent a team down from the CRS division to try and calm the masses, which they did by opening up a hotline for complaints and speaking with city council members and clergy, etc.

      AG Holder to his credit did say the investigation would “follow every lead” or “go wherever it took” or some such phrase but I can assure you the focus was always on whether or not George Zimmerman was potentially going to be charged with a hate crime or not.

      The Obama administration paid heed to the groundswell of attention the case generated but they did not apply further pressure onto the case after the Florida governor Rick Scott made his move in appointing a special prosecutor.

  14. blushedbrown
    March 11, 2013 at 6:06 PM


    I don’t know if this would be helpful, but I put a excel sheet together with name, radio id, and employee id if any, and some of the dispatchers.
    If it will be of some use, let me know.


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